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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Personal Statements to be Scrapped

162 replies

Xenia · 18/07/2024 12:22

Might be of interest - Ucas scraps personal statements for university admissions
"Instead of a 4000-character statement, from next year applicants will be asked to answer three questions on why they want to study their chosen course and how they are prepared for it."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cger11kjk1jo

Students graduating

Ucas scraps personal statements for university admissions

Ucas says the change will encourage applicants from disadvantaged backgrounds to apply to higher education.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cger11kjk1jo

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 19/07/2024 12:24

Doesn't sound like it will be a lot different, a good Personal Statement should cover those things anyway.
It will cut more to the chase and prevent waffle I think

WombatChocolate · 19/07/2024 12:57

Agree that a good PS always contained what the 3 paragraphs/Qs focus on.

Schools and colleges have always directed students to focus on those things. But students often don’t or don’t understand what those things mean…..and those with more input will still be able to focus on them better.

Maybe if students are more aware of the 3 areas they will write about at the START of yr12, it will help them focus on ensuring they do other stuff outside the curriculum that they can write about that is relevant to their course they will apply for. It’s super-curriculars not extra curriculars which are most valued….ie subject related activities/reading.

Does this really level the playing field? Possibly vv slightly. The same kids as before will have greater input in the writing of the answers and more input in ensuring they’ve done stuff to have things to write about.

It’s always been the case that lots of advice about what a good PS includes is available to anyone who looks online. But often the key thing is you do t know what you don’t know. Students from less prepared backgrounds only start looking at this in July of yr12 or Sept of yr13 or later….often as the UCAS deadline approaches. Those who are moor clouded up are looking at it and thinking about it from the start of yr12. Their parents know, their teachers know and it’s part of their culture to be thinking about it early enough to be able to engage with their subjects within and outside the classroom to develop strong PS.

For most courses at most places, predicted grades are always the key and often only determinant if who gets the offers. But people don’t realise just how many students have all A star predictions or all A star and one A grade predictions and that to get offers on the most competitive courses, their predicted grades will need to exceed the standard offer and a great PS will play a role too.

CurlewKate · 19/07/2024 13:46

@focacciamuffin " I wasn't really interested but was surprised that the oboe was so popular."

People think it's an unusual choice!🤣

Xenia · 19/07/2024 17:02

The directed new questions seem along similar lines to the questions I was asked in 1979 and at least it helps people know what are the areas of interest (although it will be grades that is more likely to get them in)

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 19/07/2024 17:38

I am aware some uni applicants have struggled but in reality it’s not a huge number out of the 38% of 18 year olds who go to uni. I still believe doing more than school work is of value. It’s making dc a more rounded person, even if volunteering is a caring role. Personally I’m totally against dc being forced to do this and it rarely means they get to leave home. As nearly everyone who wants to go to uni can get into one, not sure what difference a ps makes in most circumstances either? They are used by a tiny minority, others use them as tie breakers, recruiting unis probably do not look at them. As for getting it lined up thoughout y12, most really don’t need to. Unless of course, you have nothing to say if you don’t get your act together.

Periwinkl3 · 19/07/2024 19:03

TizerorFizz · 19/07/2024 17:38

I am aware some uni applicants have struggled but in reality it’s not a huge number out of the 38% of 18 year olds who go to uni. I still believe doing more than school work is of value. It’s making dc a more rounded person, even if volunteering is a caring role. Personally I’m totally against dc being forced to do this and it rarely means they get to leave home. As nearly everyone who wants to go to uni can get into one, not sure what difference a ps makes in most circumstances either? They are used by a tiny minority, others use them as tie breakers, recruiting unis probably do not look at them. As for getting it lined up thoughout y12, most really don’t need to. Unless of course, you have nothing to say if you don’t get your act together.

You don’t know the numbers with SENs or difficulties. Life experience makes you a more rounded person not choir and oboe. And that’s why bullshit like choir etc shouldn’t be given importance. Then the numbers of first time members of families attending uni and those who don’t come from
wealthy families and private schools will increase.

Dartwarbler · 19/07/2024 19:18

PerpetualOptimist · 18/07/2024 15:35

This has been in consultation for some time but the announcement does at least clarify the 'what' and 'when'. I am not sure it makes much difference. You can still up to 4000 characters to say what you want to say, with the proviso that you need to have addressed the three subheadings (you choose in what ratio). It might help some students who need to articulate their thoughts in a more structured way.

The elephant in the room is that personal statements can be critical for some highly competitive courses (particularly those lacking other tests to differentiate the legion of Astar applicants) but, for many courses, the personal statement is not relevant at all. Some research by HEPI (education think tank) shone a light on the fact that, even for personal statements that are reviewed, the time spent on them is very brief.

www.hepi.ac.uk/2023/06/15/how-do-admissions-professionals-use-the-ucas-personal-statement-2/

I went to uni in 1980s. No personal statements then.
perhaps because unis were academic and didn’t give a monkey what you did in your personal time - they just wanted to know your grades.

I don’t recall but they may have asked a few basic questions about hobbies or any work experience, but it certainly wasn’t a statement needing the level of editing and care the personal statements do.

I spent huge time honing my dc personal statements ~15 years ago, felt at time it was a bloody waste of time. It certainly doesn’t help disadvantaged kids, and it was mostly bigging up stuff that 90% of kids had given to them on a plate by parents or schools. In other words taking opportunities that were being given. Kids of that age have little scope for truely doing stuff off their own back other than a Saturday job. Unless they have a nepotism or wealth advantage.

CurlewKate · 19/07/2024 21:07

If very competitive universities are going to use personal statements as tie breakers, then there is even more reason to get rid of them. If what we are looking for is equality of opportunity. Which some of us certainly are....

JaffavsCookie · 19/07/2024 21:29

There certainly were personal statements in the 1980s, you probably didn’t give it much thought so have forgotten about it @Dartwarbler

BruFord · 19/07/2024 21:36

Hmm, I haven’t RTFT, but my form tutor told me that that my Personal Statement would open doors for me, and I think he was right.

My academic record was uneven, but something in my application got me some good offers and I think it was that. I’ll never know for sure, obviously, but it explained my situation and who I was. So I’m not sure about abolishing it.

Jubileetime · 19/07/2024 22:05

Those who are saying extenuating circumstances should be in the reference do rather assume the school knows alot about the child. My ds would have an excellent personal statement anyway but is also ex Lac child with a father who committed suicide, his school have no idea about this and i have been preparing myself to share this with them for his ucas application and this further requires me to do so. Not sure in what way that is beneficial for ds apart from financially

marcopront · 20/07/2024 05:20

Jubileetime · 19/07/2024 22:05

Those who are saying extenuating circumstances should be in the reference do rather assume the school knows alot about the child. My ds would have an excellent personal statement anyway but is also ex Lac child with a father who committed suicide, his school have no idea about this and i have been preparing myself to share this with them for his ucas application and this further requires me to do so. Not sure in what way that is beneficial for ds apart from financially

Shouldn't the school know about that anyway so they can support him?

Periwinkl3 · 20/07/2024 08:06

marcopront · 20/07/2024 05:20

Shouldn't the school know about that anyway so they can support him?

Not in an FE college, they know very little.

Scumtastic · 20/07/2024 08:19

Darhon · 18/07/2024 18:45

I knew AI would be the final nail in the personal
statement coffin. Next step might be finally to move to post results offers.

Post qualification applications would be a huge improvement

TizerorFizz · 20/07/2024 08:43

So a choir is “billshit”? What a sad reflection on life and the benefits singing brings. It’s plain ignorance. I’m proud my DCs enjoyed doing this and they learnt a lot from turning up and being part of a group. Singing is for everyone. I hate the idea that dc who do a bit more are described in such a horrible way. .. it’s just plain nasty. Of course the PS is used as a tie break. What’s the point of it if it is not used?

mumsneedwine · 20/07/2024 08:48

There is no point to it for most Unis. A few read it but for the majority it's just a computer saying yes or no.
However, because a few read it, and some use it to choose for over subscribed courses, it's worth putting the effort in. And it's good practice for CV writing.
Choir is a great extra. Shows commitment, practice, team work etc. It's about what you learn from things more than just doing them for the sake of it.

Jubileetime · 20/07/2024 08:49

marcopront · 20/07/2024 05:20

Shouldn't the school know about that anyway so they can support him?

If he needed support I would let the school know ( or more likely he would). He is not at FE college, still at secondary and no they don't know as the Lac was pre school, they are aware of father being dead but not the circumstances. So I will have to bring this up so he can get financial support for university, I had looked into how to so previously and it appeared, I could just get confirmation from S W but with this new guidance, it seems the school will need to know, not sure how dragging up a horrendous few years is actually supporting dc

mumsneedwine · 20/07/2024 08:50

Post qualification would mean applying in August for a September start. Which would be an impossible turn around, especially for courses that interview. Unless we change the whole academic year !

Bunnyannesummers · 20/07/2024 08:53

Jubileetime · 20/07/2024 08:49

If he needed support I would let the school know ( or more likely he would). He is not at FE college, still at secondary and no they don't know as the Lac was pre school, they are aware of father being dead but not the circumstances. So I will have to bring this up so he can get financial support for university, I had looked into how to so previously and it appeared, I could just get confirmation from S W but with this new guidance, it seems the school will need to know, not sure how dragging up a horrendous few years is actually supporting dc

You don’t NEED to tell school. If it has impacted him and his studies to the point you feel it needs to be shared for extenuating circumstances, you need to tell them. But if they don’t already know, I’d imagine that’s not the case.

What he does need to do, is tick the box on the UCAS form that says he’s care experienced. That’s what lets unis know and get the extra support, contextual offers and bursaries put in place - not the reference or statement.

Bunnyannesummers · 20/07/2024 08:55

mumsneedwine · 20/07/2024 08:50

Post qualification would mean applying in August for a September start. Which would be an impossible turn around, especially for courses that interview. Unless we change the whole academic year !

Agreed. PQA would be great but it’s just not going to happen in the UK unless they change the entire education system and there’s just no appetite for it

Periwinkl3 · 20/07/2024 09:03

TizerorFizz · 20/07/2024 08:43

So a choir is “billshit”? What a sad reflection on life and the benefits singing brings. It’s plain ignorance. I’m proud my DCs enjoyed doing this and they learnt a lot from turning up and being part of a group. Singing is for everyone. I hate the idea that dc who do a bit more are described in such a horrible way. .. it’s just plain nasty. Of course the PS is used as a tie break. What’s the point of it if it is not used?

And it’s plain ignorance to think kids who do choir, DoE etc are somehow superior students to those with life experience and challenges. For many many kids getting high Alevels is a massive challenge they have overcome.

Periwinkl3 · 20/07/2024 09:04

mumsneedwine · 20/07/2024 08:48

There is no point to it for most Unis. A few read it but for the majority it's just a computer saying yes or no.
However, because a few read it, and some use it to choose for over subscribed courses, it's worth putting the effort in. And it's good practice for CV writing.
Choir is a great extra. Shows commitment, practice, team work etc. It's about what you learn from things more than just doing them for the sake of it.

Doing Alevels shows massive commitment and for some kids they have had to show bigger commitment than others to get the grades they need.

DidYerAye · 20/07/2024 09:05

Can't believe you didn't have 'solicitor/astrologer' as a career option, @Xenia. You could have predicted the outcome at the same meeting as you took the instruction.

C8H10N4O2 · 20/07/2024 09:10

TizerorFizz · 20/07/2024 08:43

So a choir is “billshit”? What a sad reflection on life and the benefits singing brings. It’s plain ignorance. I’m proud my DCs enjoyed doing this and they learnt a lot from turning up and being part of a group. Singing is for everyone. I hate the idea that dc who do a bit more are described in such a horrible way. .. it’s just plain nasty. Of course the PS is used as a tie break. What’s the point of it if it is not used?

The only tie broken by a list of the standard MC after school activities is between the haves and the have-nots.

Its a good way of keeping the oicks out whilst pretending you have an objective tie breaker if that is the intent, but in most cases it tells the university more about the parents than the child.

Dartwarbler · 20/07/2024 09:18

JaffavsCookie · 19/07/2024 21:29

There certainly were personal statements in the 1980s, you probably didn’t give it much thought so have forgotten about it @Dartwarbler

Nope

google it

”Since 1993, UCAS has required university applicants in the UK to submit a 4,000-character Personal Statement during the application process, which would then be accessed by university admissions teams to assist in the shortlisting process.”

as I said I vaguely remember a few short questions, but a 4000 word crafted essay..nope.

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