Disadvantages of degree apprenticeships? Why do the majority of DC choose uni over degree apprenticeships?

[hmmm12]

Tell me about the disadvantages of degree apprenticeships please.
Would your dc consider doing a degree apprenticeship? And if not why not?

The bottom line is there are hardly any good ones and no clear easy entry point so until that changes most teenagers who may go to university will stick with the university route. Also by the way of the 5 in our family who are lawyers 2 did a BA first, 2 a BSc and I did an LLB. So it can certainly be the case an arts or more general degree leads to law and my son's friend who is an accountant at a leading firm did a BSc first too.

I’ve known quite a few who’ve got onto degree apprenticeships as well as quite a few who thought about it and applied but got nowhere, or decided not to bother.

The ones who got the places were certainly high academic performers. All apart from one had also applied to UCAS and had excellent uni offers too. They certainly went the apprenticeship route due to saving the cost of the degree. All took their degree apprenticeship and deferred their uni place in case they didn’t like the degree apprenticeship. They were teens who had multiple options, but also knowledgeable parents working with them to help them get the places and make successful applications.

The ones I know who thought about it and applied but didn’t really get far with it, didn’t have a strong sense of what they wanted to do in the world of work. They wanted a good career and to earn well and didn’t want to go to uni as didn’t fancy further full time study. Most of them had done part time jobs whilst at school or college. In almost all cases, they looked into degree apprenticeships themselves and didn’t have much help from parents. They were late to the party and their applications will not have been strong due to mediocre academics, lack of evidence to suggest genuine interest in the field they were applying to and quite simply a lack of adult support needed to make really competitive applications. They were typical 17 year olds applying without much clue. They typically did about 6 applications and found it exhausting and tedious. The people getting places often put in far more applications because the parents understood that was necessary and had researched it well in advance.

I think it’s true that successful applicants will have been able to demonstrate that they were ready for work, mature and interested. But I did agree that they would have been more suited to the apprenticeship route than standard degree - the successful ones were highly academic with top A Level grades and would have fitted right in at top unis and worked hard and done really well via the standard route too.

All my info is anecdotal of course. But over a good few years, I’ve seen the degree apprenticeships go to academic student s who’ve applied, plus known lots of more average students show interest but not really get far with it all.

The really difficult issue is that there isn’t a good, clear and known route that is available in sufficient numbers for the students who have completed FE and got average results and who don’t want to continue further full time study or take in the debt associated with standard degrees. This large group are left feeling very uncertain through their yr13 about what to do next, without much support or a clear pathway. The system is failing them in terms of support and advice. Many later work their way into careers through all kinds of routes, but many also end up with lots of short term, unsatisfying jobs.

@Xenia I think your family had every guidance in career routes though. My DD is a barrister and we had no idea what to advise her to do! Luckily she worked it out herself. I think self starters will find apprenticeships to apply for but many DC just aren’t ready at 16/17 years old without guidance. The whole process is daunting and difficult so I agree, it needs to change.

"The whole process is daunting and difficult so I agree, it needs to change"

Having apprenticeships advertised on UCAS is helpful in theory but, in practice I find their website clunky, busy and unintuitive to navigate (for university admissions as well as for apprenticeships). Just me? I'm an IT professional, in an analytical role, so unintuitive user interfaces make me bristle.

I can't see the complicated and disparate application processes changing any time soon. The Government wants to encourage as many employers as possible to launch degree apprenticeships, and employers inevitably want to do that on their own recruitment terms, not the government's. They want high potential recruits so are invariably looking for similar characteristics to university recruiters and graduate recruiters. Why wouldn't they? It is a recruiters' market.

But other levels of apprenticeship are available.

I've spent the last couple of hours researching the possibilities for dd. It seems to be a case of looking up companies individually but unless there are open vacancies at the minute, the information is minimal. Rolls Royce was an exception, but most others don't even give details on the unis they're linked with or where they will be based. It's very hard deciding which route to take without this information especially at 17.
The approach seems to be to wait until applications open in autumn, but will the criteria set for applications include things that by that point have been left too late?

Also very interesting that the chances of getting one are very minimal yet the entry grades are much lower than a lot of the universities.

I suspect the minimum entry grades may be influenced by the Government's funding conditions.

Interesting - when looking for my DS 5 years ago, the grades required were the same as for the higher level unis, if not the top. Even where the degree element was at a lower rank uni.

Advertising a minimum grade and then sifting out DC with those grades is likely to happen by companies. Why wouldn’t you go for the “best” DC? They are going to cost your company a lot of money and you might want these dc to compete with high flying grads that you also recruit. Many companies still recruit both and don’t want lower grade apprentices for the degrees. The vast majority of degree apprenticeships go to over 18s too. Mostly to existing employees.

I think they offer lower grades to enable them to see them in person as they are also interested in work ethic and passion. Once they get to work, grades are not everything. Their assessment days are, I'm sure, set up to filter what they are looking for.

My DS had C grades at GCSE, although he nailed the very highest possible grades at BTEC triple distinction star, and he is a steely character. He had worked in summers but in holiday work, not related work. He was offered 2 degree apprenticeships. Any guidance he had was from his sixth form college apprenticeship group (they have them for apprenticeships, medics, oxbridge, etc) and his lecturers who championed those with the right ethic and passion. A couple of his mates also went into apprenticeships - IT with NHS, BT, and some banks.

The assessment days were long and quite brutal. Possibly puts a student that's been hand held at a disadvantage, to be honest.

@NCTDN it's worth signing up with 'Amazing Apprenticeships' as they send round a summary of vacancies twice a year. It's a hefty publication - about 40 pages of higher/degree apprenticeships and it at least gives you somewhere to start. I've still found lots of others that aren't on that listing, but it really helped as a starting point (not that my year 13 ds has applied yet - he's having a gap year or two first, but I like to do my research in advance!).

The grades advertised might be linked to uni requirements too. Again top grades at BTec were of interest. Would CDC have been at A level?

Haven’t letter grades at GCSE been changed to numbers @Feelingstrange2?

@TizerorFizz

Yes but my DS is 26.

He's not an apprentice now - he was 18 to 21.

That's great thank you