Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Disadvantages of degree apprenticeships? Why do the majority of DC choose uni over degree apprenticeships?

139 replies

hmmm12 · 29/03/2024 18:10

Tell me about the disadvantages of degree apprenticeships please.
Would your dc consider doing a degree apprenticeship? And if not why not?

OP posts:
shrumps · 02/04/2024 13:49

NCTDN · 29/03/2024 20:13

@shrumps where is your ds?

He’s at Aston Uni, employed by DHL

shrumps · 02/04/2024 14:15

Kanfuzed123 · 01/04/2024 20:40

I think that’s flipping amazing! You must be really proud.

your son will be flying! I cant imagine being on 23k at 18/19. Well done him

I am really pleased for him but I also think the uni experience is an amazing one so I do wonder if he will regret missing out on that later.

Piggywaspushed · 02/04/2024 14:18

DS's friend doing same with Sheffield!

takemeawayagain · 02/04/2024 14:54

I think the thing with uni is 'the experience' - you're never going to have anything like it again. It's a good opportunity to put off real work for a few more years and learn more about who you are. Some subjects also seem to have a lot more opportunities than others and there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get a degree apprenticeship - sometimes right around mocks time.

I think they are a fantastic opportunity, the work experience, getting paid, no debt, 'free' degree - but the drop out rates are quite high (not sure if that's just for degree apprenticeships though, or all levels). I think they'll be absolutely brilliant for a lot of kids and not right for others.

TizerorFizz · 02/04/2024 15:02

@Postapocalypticcowgirl Apprentice engineers may not end up in the same place as degree engineers at all. Or if they do, it’s a long haul. This is because many of the apprentice degrees are BEng. They are not MEng. This is important because you need a MEng integrated degree or a stand alone masters degree to be a Chsrtered Engineer.A BEng isn’t good enough. So the apprentice route can be very slow. You are not likely to get qualifying work before the degree (because you are not a graduate engineer) so there isn’t much of a head start being an apprentice. University attended isn’t a limit on being CEng, but degree obtained is and the CPD a grad engineer needs for CEng is more onerous than IEng (the lower professional qualification).

Riverlee · 02/04/2024 15:05

My ds did wonder what it would have been like to go down the uni route at times, but at the same time, didn’t regret the route he took, and has given talks on careers nights at his old school on accountancy apprenticeships.

Menomeno · 02/04/2024 15:38

My DD went to uni and lasted a term. She absolutely hated it and left after Christmas. The Uni life isn’t a wonderful experience for everyone. Her only regret all these years later was going to uni in the first place. She’s still paying off her loan for that one term.

TizerorFizz · 02/04/2024 16:20

Most people do consider if leaving home and university will suit them. A term isn’t long to give something a chance. It would apply to a job as well. Loans can be paid off in a lump so surely working has meant she has more money? Not everyone is going to find university wonderful but dc need to be pragmatic.

I do think if DC don’t see the point in going they should not go but so many don’t really know what they want so university gives a chance to think.Even to think you don’t like it. This is far more common at low tariff universities. However if you go back to the early 1950s only 2% had the luxury of university and we needed to shift from that!

Kanfuzed123 · 02/04/2024 18:37

shrumps · 02/04/2024 14:15

I am really pleased for him but I also think the uni experience is an amazing one so I do wonder if he will regret missing out on that later.

I went to uni, had the classic experience and it can be quite challenging, and I’m not sure ‘the experience’ is worth the price tag anymore. your son can get fall down drunk at anytime lol. In the long run, he’ll be laughing.

it’s definitely the Avenue I’d encourage my kids to put their focus (if they weren’t taken with a specific area of study like medicine or law). Basically, it’s f’ing awesome and I’m sure he’ll be ballin’ in no time

Riverlee · 02/04/2024 19:50

Unfortunately, recent intakes of students haven’t had ‘the uni experience’ due to Covid. A lot were stuck in their halls and didn’t mix with other students.

TizerorFizz · 02/04/2024 20:14

@Riverlee People didn’t mix at work either. It was grim for everyone. Hopefully it won’t happen again and should not put anyone off university.

i did notice a pp earlier said lots of degrees had work experience as an option. Mostly in stem and business though. There’s not much on offer for history, philosophy, sociology, psychology, anthropology, MFL, politics, IR, English or most humanities subjects. A few might get a placement but the vast majority don’t. So they need the holidays to enhance their cvs.

toocozi · 03/04/2024 22:21

Peasnbeans · 30/03/2024 00:31

Does anyone on here have a child who did an Arts and Humanities apprenticeship?
Or, can anyone suggest an apprenticeship suitable with A Levels in English Literature, Spanish and History? Predicted A A and A/B

Some major employers, e.g. BP, offer Human Resources degree apprenticeships.

toocozi · 03/04/2024 22:27

TizerorFizz · 30/03/2024 08:42

@TeenLifeMum Postgrad is not the same. Undergrads, and I didn’t look at every apprenticeship obviously, is heavily skewed towards non RG. Local firms are using local unis. I have no doubt there are exceptions, but one post grad course at Exeter doesn’t mean undergrads get the courses there. For example, lots of courses are not available part time at the top unis.

Arts and humanities tend to get steered into management or law. Not sure teaching has apprenticeships?! There might be local government or civil service apprenticeships for non stem grads. Not sure. Stem seems to be the majority.

I've noticed this, but I think it's down to the more academic universities not wanting to get involved in apprenticeships rather than employers not choosing them. It was always the case that "Russell Group" unis focussed on academics and former polytechnics had more vocational learning paths, so it's a legacy of that. It's a shame though.

TizerorFizz · 03/04/2024 22:46

@toocozi It’s a dilemma for young people though. Should DC look at top 10 university or work and get a degree from a uni they wouldn’t ordinarily look at?

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 07:56

Plenty of the top unis do have degree apprenticeships, notably in accountancy - the PWC apprenticeship, for example.

Does it matter what the awarding university for a degree apprenticeship is? I would have thought the quality of employer and their investment in and commitment to the scheme matters the most.

Dyson's is well known and extremely competitive as are some of the banking apprenticeships. It is Dyson and Santander who are attracting the candidates , not the uni.

DS's friend who does his with Sheffield hardly every goes there, when he does he is put up in hotels. It really doesn't make a difference.

toocozi · 04/04/2024 08:15

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 07:56

Plenty of the top unis do have degree apprenticeships, notably in accountancy - the PWC apprenticeship, for example.

Does it matter what the awarding university for a degree apprenticeship is? I would have thought the quality of employer and their investment in and commitment to the scheme matters the most.

Dyson's is well known and extremely competitive as are some of the banking apprenticeships. It is Dyson and Santander who are attracting the candidates , not the uni.

DS's friend who does his with Sheffield hardly every goes there, when he does he is put up in hotels. It really doesn't make a difference.

I think the problem is that none of what you mention is transparent. Most of the Degree Apprenticeships we've looked at don't even say which university they're partnering with, never mind practicalities and logistics.

Btw, I would say some of the top unis have apprenticeships, not plenty.

EarthlyNightshade · 04/04/2024 08:52

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 07:56

Plenty of the top unis do have degree apprenticeships, notably in accountancy - the PWC apprenticeship, for example.

Does it matter what the awarding university for a degree apprenticeship is? I would have thought the quality of employer and their investment in and commitment to the scheme matters the most.

Dyson's is well known and extremely competitive as are some of the banking apprenticeships. It is Dyson and Santander who are attracting the candidates , not the uni.

DS's friend who does his with Sheffield hardly every goes there, when he does he is put up in hotels. It really doesn't make a difference.

Very anecdotally but I know two engineers who don't rate the Dyson degree.
One is involved in recruitment, the other has worked with people from the Dyson programme.
I know the course is extremely competitive and I am sure the graduates have no problems getting a job, but it's possibly not the best route for certain types of engineering.

Seeline · 04/04/2024 08:52

I think the problem with lower level unis providing the academic side of a degree apprenticeship is if the student decides that the subject area is not for them and wants to move into a different field. They are left with a quite specific degree from an inferior institution to compete against other graduates with degrees from better known establishments. Yes, the probably have very good A levels, due to the competitive nature of DAs, and yes they have some work experience (probably in a completely unrelated field), but will that be enough?

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:12

I have no skin in the game but I would think the doubts expressed on here by parents are probably reflective of doubts shared by other adults who aren't in the field (eg teachers) and the children they influence. This might be one reason why they aren't as developed/ widespread as they could have been. Also... funding.

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:13

EarthlyNightshade · 04/04/2024 08:52

Very anecdotally but I know two engineers who don't rate the Dyson degree.
One is involved in recruitment, the other has worked with people from the Dyson programme.
I know the course is extremely competitive and I am sure the graduates have no problems getting a job, but it's possibly not the best route for certain types of engineering.

I taught a student who got a place. Came back to speak about it and raved about it. Works in marketing at Dyson now.

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:14

Works directly with James Dyson as it goes!

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:15

toocozi · 04/04/2024 08:15

I think the problem is that none of what you mention is transparent. Most of the Degree Apprenticeships we've looked at don't even say which university they're partnering with, never mind practicalities and logistics.

Btw, I would say some of the top unis have apprenticeships, not plenty.

I guess that depends on your definition of plenty ... and top...

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:19

Most of the students who say they are applying for DAs don't in the end, ime. They soon realise it's a very hard process, and also that they are locked in. Talking to older friends about lifestyles does influence them too. Whilst they can be very earnings motivated in the end they are young and want to live a freer, less business like lifestyle for a few more years : and keep their options open/ travel/ do lower stress summer jobs and work experience. They feel DAs lock them in. Mainly, though, I think they just think it's too hard to get on a good programme and are surprised when they eventually realise this.

LuluBlakey1 · 04/04/2024 09:46

My goddaughter and her brother have both done them. Hers through an i ternational bank/finance company and his a large construction company. She is a chartered accountant and he is a chartered surveyor. They are both early mid-20s, each owns a property, a decent car, or a company car. They earn good salaries, one of them travels all over the world with work. No student loan debt. They both were with others their same age in a small group so made friends doing it and had support. The work is really tough- long hours,high-pressure, high expectations.

Another friend has two children about the same age (one slightly older) who went through typical uni course route. Both got 1sts in arts subjects, have student loan debts, neither has a decent job- short-term, internships, poorly-paid, not been able to find what they actually want to do so change direction. They rent a room in flats, are often out of work, struggle for money. One has an old car, the other no car. No possibility of either buying-they can't save.

All 4 are lovely people but the degree apprenticeship route seems to have somehow instilled some drive, willingness to work hard to be successful and real independence in the first two. The second two are still 'drifting'. One is currently between jobs so has moved home again and is living off parent, the other has been given thousands by parent over the last two years to re-train as something else but is now paid per session of what he does and regularly isn't working.

I suspect all 4 will be fine in 10 years time and the process has just not really provided the second two with any direction or routes to employment or the skills to compete or a sense of the world of work. However, they certainly have not faced the kind of competitive and work pressures the first two have-which has not been an easy experience for people late teens/early 20s and made them grow up quickly.

wpuleeeeto · 04/04/2024 09:48

I recently supported some sixth form mock interviews for a high performing school that has historically heavily pushed university, I interviewed about 20 students, except for two that were aiming for Cambridge, every other student I interviewed was looking at an apprenticeship, apprenticeship degree or going straight into work.