Disadvantages of degree apprenticeships? Why do the majority of DC choose uni over degree apprenticeships?

[hmmm12]

Tell me about the disadvantages of degree apprenticeships please.
Would your dc consider doing a degree apprenticeship? And if not why not?

I'm interested in this as well.
Lots of advantages but disadvantages might be

• not the best degree in the subject
• having to work and study means no uni lifestyle if that is what is wanted
• no long holidays
• very competitive and arduous application procedure for competitive places (i.e my friend's very bright son has 3 excellent uni offers and still waiting to hear about apprenticeships)

My DS is a bit younger but is considering a practical apprenticeship, no degree, but still very competitive.

Degree apprenticeships are in limited supply- tiny number compared to degrees

Yes my dc absolutely would, but the ones he has applied for are like gold dust and he's unfortunately been rejected.
He's now applying for other professional studies apprenticeships, although not degree apprenticeships.
He says he doesn't want to go to uni as the thought of just studying a subject for 3 years doesn't appeal at all. He has applied and has offers.

My elder dc had a set career path in mind for which a degree was pretty much required.

I haven't looked at statistics but I'd imagine that there are far far far more undergraduate places than degree apprenticeship places on offer.

I dont think you can comepare numbers doing degrees and numbers doing degree apprenticeships and come to the conclusion that people are choosing degrees over degree apprenticeships.

There are far more opportunities to do a degree over degree apprenticeships and it is easier (relatively) to get a place on a degree than get taken on for a degree apprenticeship.

My son is doing one. Disadvantages as listed by PP, but he had had enough of full time studies and wanted to work. I feel the pluses far outweigh the minuses - he is on a starting salary of £23k, will get a degree with no debt and his company pays for him to stay in the city he’s at uni during his study weeks so he does get something like the student experience.

It's not the "university experience" and quite frankly harder work. Usually you are working full time 4 days a week, full day study 1 day and need to use evenings and weekends to study, plus they take 5-6 years to get your degree.

For a driven individual not interested in university life it's a good option but not for everyone

Because there are hardly any?

DS thought about it but decided you had to be very committed to a particular career path to do it. Anyway they do seem to be in very short supply.

There are hardly any degree apprenticeships. There are very, very few outside of engineering, comp sci, IT and other STEM subjects. If you are a language, humanities or arts student you will struggle. High quality degree apprenticeships with large multinationals such as Boeing or RR are much harder to get into than applying for a conventional degree through UCAS. I work in the NHS and there are a limited number of nursing and AHP degree apprenticeships but very few compared to the number of students who come on placement and almost all go to existing staff such as HCAs so it’s a slower and riskier route in for an 18yo A-level student with an offer of a nursing place at a normal uni.
Additionally they are harder, in the sense that you have more contact hours as you are literally working. People who want to leave home may worry about someone willing to rent to a random 18yo whereas conventional uni you can easily get a place in halls with other first years. People who want to stay at home will often be very restricted as to what they can apply for.

I would say for an academically able YP, the pace of study on day or block release might not be challenging enough but they are forced to go at the apprenticeship pace. Of course they get a lot of practical skills but I can see in a few years they might be looking at grads coming in with MEng's racing ahead of them. I would hope after a few years both groups would even out but it's a different shape of early career and not one size for all.

My DS looked into them when he was starting uni. In his sector, most of the companies were using low ranked unis for the degree part. Many only offered online courses. He could not choose the uni.

He was concerned that at the end of it (6 years rather than 3 on the straight degree course), if he decided that it really wasn't for him, a degree from a low ranking uni would not make him competitive against others in the general graduate job market.

They might need to move away from home, but without the support network of being surrounded by others in halls and with all the responsibility of paying bills etc.

@shrumps where is your ds?

What everyone else said. Plus, at 18, many young people don't have the experience to be able to say they want to be an 'x' for the rest of their lives. And having gained a degree from the apprenticeship means they can't then go back to uni to retrain in a different field - at least not unless they self fund.

There aren’t many L6 apprenticeship standards and not many employers offer them. hopefully that will change in time.

My DS did one. I won't cover the advantages except to say he wouldn't have had it any other way. Loved his time and is still working for his employer and has had a lot of promotion in the 7 years since he started.

........ but it was disadvantages that were requested:

Difficult to get an offer. Each application is different and takes a lot of work for a small chance of success.

A need to be independent from day one and have to arrange your own accommodation etc often in professional houseshares with older adults. The lack of hand holding and helpful supply of information might be seen as a disadvantage by some.

You study with a small group and everyone is interested in the one subject. It might be seen as an advantage to be mixing with many more students with different interests with a traditional Uni degree.

Your work and study alongside limit time for socialising.

You will have a degree from a Uni that supports your employers course not one you choose.

Depending on how the degree is delivered you might have more limited access to the Unis facilities.

(In reply to the poster worried about the low ranking Uni and not being competitive later on - an apprentice will have work experience and that will place them differently in applying for jobs than a graduate out of Uni. Additionally the skills most apprentices need to just nail a position will also probably put them in a good position when being interviewed). Much depends on the employer the apprenticeship is with.

@mitogoshi

I'd agree with the hard work part of your post but my DSs was completed in the normal 3 years.

DS is in his second year of a degree apprenticeship. He did his A levels in lockdown when the world was difficult. DH and I work/worked in academia so he knew all about higher education. The world was a little on hold so he got himself a job for almost 2 years and saved up working night shifts and earning up to £19 PH which was ok for an 18 to 20 year old. He hated the thought of being in debt and was far less bothered about the partying side. He has made some good mates with the other students on the apprenticeship and they do all get together and go out to the pub, nightclubs.

But it is much harder work than doing a regular degree and really very competitive to get a place. He was offered places on two. But here he is on 28k PA at 22 with zero student debt. He is still living at home with us and gives us a token amount of rent. By the time he finishes he will have a substantial house deposit. Enough to pay a 30 to 40% deposit on a decent 3 bed semi.

Lockdown did mean he really thought about what he wanted to do and working for two years well he really enjoyed it and met people from many walks of life of all ages,

I’ve just looked at civil engineering degree apprenticeships. Not one was at a RG uni. Not one was MEng. This means the apprentices won’t get to be chartered engineers without more study. So students must compare like with like and recognise the differing career requirements. Of course apprenticeships suit some but they are likely to limit you to that employer.

I know many Civil Engineering degrees are 40 hours a week. Working and doing that level of degree work isn’t possible. Something is given up and it’s often quality of degree. Others with a degree will have had a student loan but they could be much higher earners further down the line. It all needs to be weighed up.

Few 18 year olds get degree apprenticeships. It is around 6000 a year I think . 350,000 18 year olds go to uni. Plus you won’t save much if you aren’t living at home and being subsidised.

You can't really compare the numbers, as there are so few places on Degree Apprenticeships compared to degrees at University.

But, reasons that are likely to be a big influence are :

• the 'student life' - living away from your parents, whilst growing up a bit and figuring out what you want to do
• the fact that not that many people know what they want to do for a career, when they are still at school. A degree apprenticeship ties you in to whatever it is the company do
• no long stretches of holiday to do what you want with

Does anyone on here have a child who did an Arts and Humanities apprenticeship?
Or, can anyone suggest an apprenticeship suitable with A Levels in English Literature, Spanish and History? Predicted A A and A/B

Slightly different but I’m doing a postgrad diploma apprenticeship with Exeter uni (so RG do run them - they have undergrad too - and I’ll be a chartered manager at the end to).

But, it’s really hard balancing work too. I have 3 dc as well so maybe that’s not a fair comparison. I hated the uni experience and would have been much better doing an apprenticeship but they didn’t exist at this level back then. So really it depends on the dc.

Ds wanted to do one of the small number of degrees where degree apprenticeships are a real option - but had very clear ideas on the sort of course he wanted - which wasn’t on offer. And the degrees were from departments annd on courses with a very practical rather than theoretical anpproach, and less prestigious unis. Plus ofc they are very competitive.
dd wants to do an arts degree. No chance of an apprenticeship!

more people do degrees than degree apprenticeships because there are far fewer places on degree apprenticeships, and far more competition to be accepted onto one. You are 100x more likely to be accepted onto a standard university degree

@TeenLifeMum Postgrad is not the same. Undergrads, and I didn’t look at every apprenticeship obviously, is heavily skewed towards non RG. Local firms are using local unis. I have no doubt there are exceptions, but one post grad course at Exeter doesn’t mean undergrads get the courses there. For example, lots of courses are not available part time at the top unis.

Arts and humanities tend to get steered into management or law. Not sure teaching has apprenticeships?! There might be local government or civil service apprenticeships for non stem grads. Not sure. Stem seems to be the majority.