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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

BBC 2 9pm tonight Is University Really Worth it?

129 replies

Aslockton · 11/03/2024 18:37

1 hour long programme tonight looking at the higher education sector. Might be worth a watch if you have young people thinking about university or other pathways.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 12/03/2024 12:04

A high paid although not necessarily high status job where you don't need a degree is in programming and computer science.

They did show this on the program - the AI that he had a conversation with. The person he interviewed ran the software development group and did not have a degree.

Many computer programmers learn by doing it and a lot are very proficient before uni age. It's common in tech start ups for there to be plenty of uni drop outs (often because it wasn't teaching them anything and they now have an interesting job) and plenty of people who never went to uni.

sashagabadon · 12/03/2024 12:06

Piggywaspushed · 11/03/2024 19:35

The presenter is very right wing Geoff Norcott so I'm quite wary...

No he’s not. What a ridiculous comment. He’s centre right and actually has lots of lefty views

PumpkinKnitter · 12/03/2024 12:18

Mixed routes here. DD1 (A level grades Astar, A, B) was determined she didn't want to go to uni. She went into a Level 3 (or 4?) marketing apprenticeship with a recruitment agency at 18 and transferred onto their grad scheme at 19. Worked in recruitment for a few years, dabbled in marketing, and is now happily settled as an internal comms manager for a large organisation on a decent salary. Has no regrets about her decision and has never felt the lack of a degree has held her back in any way.

DD2 was equally determined she did want to go to uni. She took a MFL / linguistics degree at a RG uni, then went into accountancy with a Big 4 firm on their grad scheme. She did exceptionally well in her exams (determined to prove that a humanities graduate could outperform the business / maths / accountancy people!) and is now a qualified chartered accountant heading for a 6 figure salary. Highly unlikely she would have got into accountancy post-A level as she was very much on a humanities track at that time.

DD3 is a would-be scientist and will be starting uni this year (also RG). She hopes to go into clinical research and expects to need a masters or PhD. There are no viable alternatives to uni for the career she is looking at. Having seen her sister switch directions she knows that general graduate-entry jobs are an option if her chosen route doesn't work out.

I have seen other young people take a variety of routes - uni, degree apprenticeships, post A-level apprenticeships, college at 16 - and the most important factor seems to me to be how hard they work and how focused they are, not which route they take. One of DD1's friends wanted to be a hairdresser from when she was a tiny tot. She was sweeping floors as a Saturday girl at 14, qualified at 17, bought a house with her partner (then a supermarket supervisor) at 20, and now teaches in an FE college.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:19

He proclaims himself to be right wing and is said to be 'on the right of the Tory party'!

Centre right to me is probably very right wing so it's all relative...

What are his 'lefty' views sasha? The Times calls him right wing. he writes for Spiked, The Telegraph, and Unherd.

Anyway, the programme was pretty biased - he tried to sound balanced but his agenda was pretty clear. At no point did he acknowledge that 'little Geoff' might want to choose! The end bit where he went to cost up a flash car was just flippant and showed he actually ahs the privilege of not taking the whole thing very seriously.

But, anyway, I have done my due diligence by watching the programme.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:20

Octavia64 · 12/03/2024 12:04

A high paid although not necessarily high status job where you don't need a degree is in programming and computer science.

They did show this on the program - the AI that he had a conversation with. The person he interviewed ran the software development group and did not have a degree.

Many computer programmers learn by doing it and a lot are very proficient before uni age. It's common in tech start ups for there to be plenty of uni drop outs (often because it wasn't teaching them anything and they now have an interesting job) and plenty of people who never went to uni.

OK, thanks.

Still not convinced there is anything there for non STEM types.

But I think that may be the plan...

Octavia64 · 12/03/2024 12:25

Non stem types -

You can be very successful as a musician without a degree. I have relatives who are conductors (he has a maths degree but really not relevant to the music, and he only has that because his parents made him get a degree "as back up") and drummers.

Whether you consider that high status or high paid is a different question

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:29

Yes, but music is specifically very niche and very talented. And plenty do go to conservatoires and university.

I am thinking about someone who loves history, literature, perhaps sociology or psychology, art or drama. Not a really talented person - just normal.

This would describe my DS1 a little bit (politics degree) and my DS2 does a history degree. No one ever could suggest a so called 'better' alternative. Marketing is one example - very few apprenticeships in that round me plus neither of mine are interested in that businessy end of things. But great for some .

Lots and lots of 17 years olds really don't want to narrow themselves down to a specific career yet.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:31

Another thing that did irk me about the presenter - he never once mentioned that you need a degree to do the profession he went into himself. He stood in front of a school and once again restated that a degree might be necessary for things more obviously vocational, such as medicine. I suspect the idea of his DS becoming a teacher fills him with abject horror!

crazycrofter · 12/03/2024 12:34

@Piggywaspushed the government degree apprenticeships in economics and social sciences research look interesting for the humanities types - they're fairly new and I wonder if they might launch a few more if they're successful? Obviously you'd have to want to work in the civil service, at least initially.

Octavia64 · 12/03/2024 12:36

Oh, don't get me wrong, I went to uni, my kids went to uni, I absolutely think it is worth it.

What it gives you is an independence and (especially for humanities degrees) an ability to see the wider picture about the society you are in,

There are very few alternatives to uni for non-trades jobs and the sort of people who go straight into work without uni are either so talented they wouldn't get much from it or would struggle to access it.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:36

Wow, it was only two years ago they were suspending all their post degree fast track schemes crazy!

SabrinaThwaite · 12/03/2024 12:42

Just looked at a large employer close to me and they offer quite a wide range of apprenticeships in things like logistics, project planning, digital marketing etc. One of my DC’s friends is there as an apprentice and is enjoying the opportunity to move around all the various departments. These kind of apprenticeships seem to be super competitive though.

Oblomov24 · 12/03/2024 12:42

I will watch on catch up.

Oblomov24 · 12/03/2024 12:44

@Floopani

She is!! 

"I just had visions of you being supercool and retro!" @Piggywaspushed.

(Super-cool-ist that I know) Grin

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:47

SabrinaThwaite · 12/03/2024 12:42

Just looked at a large employer close to me and they offer quite a wide range of apprenticeships in things like logistics, project planning, digital marketing etc. One of my DC’s friends is there as an apprentice and is enjoying the opportunity to move around all the various departments. These kind of apprenticeships seem to be super competitive though.

Yes, that is the rub. Geoff didn't get into that at all.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 12:47

Oblomov24 · 12/03/2024 12:44

@Floopani

She is!! 

"I just had visions of you being supercool and retro!" @Piggywaspushed.

(Super-cool-ist that I know) Grin

Grin
Oblomov24 · 12/03/2024 12:56

@bookmarket

I agree. "I'm sick of hearing that apprenticeships are a viable alternative for students at 18. They are for a small percentage of 18 year olds, ".

I agree. As if it's that easy to get on them. They are like gold dust!

Newgirls · 12/03/2024 12:59

I really enjoyed the program and found him very engaging. The young medical student on the poverty line was very sad. Brave of her to speak up and I wonder what her estranged family thought of it.

tia the art student was right in that practical courses during covid were harshly impacted - drama and music were the same. Also my dds stem course - and it took the uni a very long time to get them back in labs - one factor was more students than they could fit in.

there are apprenticeships with vacancies but often the students dont pursue or know about these areas eg food production and manufacturing.

Menomeno · 12/03/2024 13:15

Oblomov24 · 12/03/2024 12:56

@bookmarket

I agree. "I'm sick of hearing that apprenticeships are a viable alternative for students at 18. They are for a small percentage of 18 year olds, ".

I agree. As if it's that easy to get on them. They are like gold dust!

DD1 got the first one she applied for. DS chose an engineering apprenticeship, hated it and left after a month. He then applied for three accountancy apprenticeships and was accepted by them all. DD2 applied for two and was accepted by the one she really wanted. You need to really search for them, but if you’re motivated and got good grades at A Level they’re definitely achievable.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 13:17

Out of interest, do you live in a urban area?

It's definitely not the case where I am.

Newgirls · 12/03/2024 13:19

As paid do they have to be close to home? I would say the ones near us are within 30 min as factories etc are not right in our town centre

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 13:20

They do if there is no public transport and you can't drive/afford a car/afford lessons.

Menomeno · 12/03/2024 13:26

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 13:17

Out of interest, do you live in a urban area?

It's definitely not the case where I am.

Yes. Though DD2’s app is mainly home-based (NHS) and there are young people from more rural parts of Lancashire who are also doing the same programme. She goes into the office about once a fortnight, and even her college (one day a week) is online.

Piggywaspushed · 12/03/2024 13:29

Gosh!

Newgirls · 12/03/2024 13:30

I guess the cost of getting to it/staying nearby has to be factored in like with uni costs. Ultimately worth the investment.