Agonising between university offers

[Redhotchillipeppers]

DS had narrowed his university offers down to Warwick, Durham and Leeds. He has applied for maths and is predicted 4A stars. Warwick is ranked considerably higher for maths than the other 2, but not keen on the travel from leamington spa/coventry in years 2&3. It is 2.5 hour drive from us. Durham seems like a great student experience, but heard some stories about lack of student accommodation in years 2&3, coming with a very high price tag. Leeds is on the doorstep and several of DSs friends are planning on going there. Both he and us are struggling to decide on what would be best.

Go where he will be happy and settled.

I thought the general consensus of opinion was that top employers don't know which university you went to as they are now doing blind applications and university name is taken out.

Don't you think he should go where the students have the highest UCAS points then?

If its 'total UCAS points' then the data will include everything that an applicant entered on their UCAS form which attracts them, not 'Ooh, look - at University A they all got three A stars and at University B they only got As'.

(And I'm sure that our DD with her BBB grades at A level apologised profusely to all her AAA+ coursemates for reducing the quality of their university experience. Before getting her First and the departmental prize for the best dissertation in her year...).

The ucas points on discovernuni are very blunt info tool. Often done in small sample sizes and count other things like lots of music exams etc. Plus might be affected by a larger contextual intake, or a smaller one. Vast differences could indicate an lower academic level but differences of these sizes will be very obvious from other factors

The UCAS points question was tongue in cheek and addressed to a PP who declared earlier that Durham maths students had a higher score. Except they have a lower score when you compare the same course at both universities. And it's a pointless measure anyway.
(They seem quite keen to find reasons to advocate for Durham ahead of Warwick.)

That was our recommendation to DT’s - we’ll support you with wherever you go but where you will be happiest is by far the most important. Heart wins over head.

@Hughs Yes - sorry- was responding to the original ucas points post - need to keep up more !

@Redhotchillipeppers the three universities are very different. Durham is closest in structure to Oxbridge as it is has colleges (many with gowns and formal dinners etc) and is an old and small city. If your DS liked that about Cambridge then he would probably enjoy Durham. Warwick is a 1970s out of town campus University. Leeds is an old, city centre university. Thinking about what university experience he would like may help him choose. Similarly to your my DS had Manchester as his 5th choice!

@mushroom3 yes they are very different.

How did Warwick raise its profile? It seemed to be at once stage every news item had a prof from Warwick on.

@Pinkfluffypencilcase Some unis have always had strong Stem departments and Warwick is sought after. It’s a fashion thing too. Plus maths students seem to like the ambience there and for maths it’s often second choice behind Oxbridge. It is probably true that students there get great jobs and word gets out. Lots will head for London as they would have done if they had been Oxbridge educated. Leeds and others are possibly more “local” unis and fewer dc head to London.

Maybe Warwick's popularity is partly a side effect of The Great Rise of STEM.

It's so tempting for programme makers and bookers to go back to the same people and places. At that point there was probably a desire not to have Oxbridge talking heads on all the time and to find people from the (gasp)... provinces 😱

Warwick has always been really highly regarded. Maths and economics aside, it is regarded as at the forefront of academic thinking in film, English and history . And really always has been since its inauguration.

Even 40 years ago, Warwick was seen as a centre of excellence for maths.

Interesting. I went to Lancaster uni and wasn’t really aware of its reputation til afterwards. Another plate glass uni.

I think it gets overlooked as it’s not in the RG group (by choice I presume)

The discussion about Warwick and its reputaion makes me wonder what went wrong with the likes Brunel. Inaugurated around the same time and also with the intention of being a centre of excellence for technical courses e.g engineering. Its never really reached the heady heights of anything close to Warwick. What have they done wrong? I used to live close to Uxbridge area and although its quite well thought of locally, it's always been mediocre nationally.

I think your DS sounds to be a sufficient high flyer in maths that he will likely benefit from going somewhere with a very strong cohort - I didn't "find my tribe" until university and there is a difference between being shown material that makes sense (while others have to work at it), and wrestling successfully with really challenging stuff and sharing that experience with your peers.

Reading the beginning of the thread I found myself thinking that getting advice from Cambridge about his reapplication chances, and how to approach maintaining and developing mathematical skills during a gap year, might be an option worth exploring. He sounds a bit more mature than my DS was a year ago, but I get hints of him maybe not being as ready as he might be in another year. My DS is now at Cambridge and doing well I think, but he actively commented the other day "maybe I'm just too young for university" with regards to some non-course-related stuff we were talking about! [memo to self - must remind him that his father and I started uni - overseas - younger than he did, albeit living at home] He is summer-born, and we didn't even manage to get him to Warwick or Imperial open or offer-holders days ... It felt like I'd had to push him to research them enough to get them on his UCAS form. Imperial ended up as his insurance because he liked the idea of a year abroad I believe.

Good luck supporting him to feel able to make his decisions sensibly.

@Pinkfluffypencilcase It’s clear now that some unis are the “Plus” in the phrase RG Plus. These are St Andrews, Bath and Lancaster (might be a couple more?). They just belong to other university groupings!

@LadeOde Brunel is just a bit marmite. DH used to go to lectures there when he was at school. Heinz Woolf if anyone remembers him. It’s clear that a uni might be set up for something but delivering what students actually want is another matter. When students perceive a university is superior it becomes able to raise its entry standards. Then it becomes more elite. Employers start to value what it does and its students. Other universities have also lost standing and others have gained. It’s also true that many universities raised their stem game so the technology unis were hardly unique.

DS had made a decision. Warwick will be firm. His girlfriend broke up with him, as she doesn’t want a long distance relationship - fair enough. On the plus side he received his official grade for his EPQ from the assessment board - A star. He also received grades for the 2nd set of mocks yesterday - 4 A stars.

Well that is brilliant news, OP! Glad he came around to Warwick willingly.

As to the girlfriend, these things happen and now he is free to fully engage with university.

Thank you everyone for keeping me sane this week - I’m not a ‘social media’ user - but this has definitely been very helpful. The insurance choice feels a lot less pressured - although I think he’s swaying towards Durham.

Well done - what a relief. And better a break up now than during A levels or having chosen Leeds for that reason!

Great update @Redhotchillipeppers and I'm glad for him that he is going with Warwick. I am sure he will have a great time there. Four x A stars, how amazing! Best of luck to him!

(@TizerorFizz don't forget Loughborough )

@TizerorFizz It's a sort of chicken/egg situation, what gave the students the feeling that the uni was somewhat superior? both unis started of at the same time and probably had similar facilities. Perhaps Warwick simply started with high entry requirements from the word go which gave the perception of an elite institution and in turn attracted more outstanding students. Brunel has always had low entry requirements. Perhaps they want to attract a more academically diverse student population. I used to think they were specialist when it comes to engineering but I've observed on MN, I've never seen a person mention Burnel as one of their dc's choices for Engineering.

Great news, OP! Best wishes to your DS