Agonising between university offers

[Redhotchillipeppers]

DS had narrowed his university offers down to Warwick, Durham and Leeds. He has applied for maths and is predicted 4A stars. Warwick is ranked considerably higher for maths than the other 2, but not keen on the travel from leamington spa/coventry in years 2&3. It is 2.5 hour drive from us. Durham seems like a great student experience, but heard some stories about lack of student accommodation in years 2&3, coming with a very high price tag. Leeds is on the doorstep and several of DSs friends are planning on going there. Both he and us are struggling to decide on what would be best.

@Redhotchillipeppers a student who is predicted 4Astars and will be studying a maths degree should definitely be able to get a job with a high enough salary to make the student debt be worth it. I hope you and him have high aspirations

Home students mainly

But there are international ones too makung up that %

I'm not getting any positive feedback from what little I can find out about studying there. Lecturers bing more interested in their own career than teaching that sort of thing
At the top research universities like Imperial, researchers are absolutely focussed on their research. It is both their passion (usually) and their livelihood. Some may be engaging lecturers, probably many won’t be. Perhaps some of the better teachers gravitate to Oxbridge . It does n’t make Imperial and like-wise “emotionally cold” places to study - staff may be more detached than at school but fellow students certainly won’t be.

@Redhotchillipeppers Quite honestly, salaries are a total red herring! DC can go into international banking and earn £100,000 very quickly or go into teaching and won’t! So what he wants to do matters! If he wants to stay in Leeds, he won’t get a London salary. He should get a decent grad job if he wants one.

Reading the thread, I think your DC likes Yorkshire and, like many, doesn’t want to
leave. So Leeds is good enough for his ambitions. If he wants London, more Warwick grads will head that way. It’s inevitable. So if he believes he doesn’t need to push for Warwick and wants Leeds, he’s a bit of a homeboy! Are you really going to change that? Possibly not. It’s maybe a bit cosy but it seems to suit him.

The best is clearly Warwick and the bus ride is hardly a big deal. It’s his excuse though. Leeds is easier to get into so he’s taking an easier route. If that satisfies him and his working ambitions, so be it.

I’m just hearing from DS now that the head teacher pulled him aside yesterday and spent a considerable amount of time with him taking through his offers. Head teachers opinion is to not turn down Warwick or Durham over Leeds or Manchester. His advice is to firm Warwick.

Re Durham and accommodation expenses/shortages, thus article was published in the student newspaper last week - seems the publicity re accommodation 2 years ago might just have been a blip due to the covid intake year

www.palatinate.org.uk/landlords-panicking-as-they-continue-to-reduce-rents/

Everyone had an accommodation blip in COVID grade inflation years. It should settle down. @Redhotchillipeppers Of course Warwick is best. That’s obvious and the Head is looking at general reputations. Obviously Durham is highly regarded too but it’s not maths at Warwick which is top 4. Often the Oxbridge back up!

Obviously!
Thats a given.
Heads will always push for kids to be in the top Unis.
Especially if they publish.

Sorry to be so synical

I should say ours did exactly the the same with our son. Pushing him to take Warwick ( even though the course content wasn’t what he wanted ). We were even hauled in to the headmasters office as well.

We saw it with lots of kids,

A first from Leeds is better than a 2:2 from Warwick.

I agree with pp that Warwick pushes hard and isnt for everyone.

He should consider where he will do best.

Just looked on unistats or whatever ots called now.
The ACTUAL ucas points held by Durham maths undergraduates is higher than Warwick maths undergraduates. See pics

Subject league table for Universities for Maths.
Im sure you know this already OP.
just in case though.

no. 1 and 2 are Oxford and Cambridge, I left them off as your dc has applied

@ilovebreadsauce yes I’ve seen those stats.

@Barquentine poured over those stats too.

I wish the decision was as easy as just looking at the stats.

This would have been more convincing if you were comparing like with like, ie BSc Mathematics at both, instead of your comparison of BSc Mathematics at Durham vs BSc Discrete Mathematics at Warwick (which has data based on only 20 students).

If you look at BSc Maths at both, you'll see that actually the Warwick students typically have more UCAS points (68% have > 208 points compared to Durham's 57%. 44% at Warwick have > 224 points compared to Durham's 39%).

In any case it doesn't matter as much as say international reputation, teaching quality, modules, campus environment and feel, distance from home, graduate prospects etc etc

It can be very difficult to decide as if someone is unhappy and drops out from a better place and would have done well at a less good place they adore then the better place is not for them. Also from all 3 people do well as getting high paid jobs (if that is the aim) are about more than just where you went but degree grade, work experience, doing the stuff you have to do to get a good job etc

I don't think university salary surveys always give a full picture. I remember my sons being called by Bristol a year after they left - the poor university or students doing the survey seemed to call our home line quite a bit but my sons were just so busy it took them ages to respond and they were doing a post grad law courses for 2 years (so no salary) at that point but pretty good salaries later. what salaries people earn 5 and 10 years on might be useful to know too (although even then if it is women some might be in the middle of the lower earning baby years by then I suppose).

If the boy is at a state school and Durham has double the number of private school people as Warwick that might be part of the decision making, but colleges are nice (Durham (and Bristol) rejected me by the way back in the day).

The school will want good stats and places it can list so may be slightly biased eg my sons' school were keen they tried Oxbridge when they got the highest grades in their 4 AS levels but mine just did not want to put in the extra effort and didn't think they would get in anyway - their choice. I would have been happy either way. I can also see why the school wanted people to try as fewer go to Oxbridge from their private school than from the nearest state sixth form college near their school.

Well the Oxbridge comment isn't exactly helpful for those rejected after interview only for the place to be given to an overseas student bringing in the cash

This is great that his teachers are bothered and concerned enough to give him decent advice

Agree with this.

The best uni depends on different factors and outcome is key.

I know maths grads from Warwick who were put off maths careers due to their experience there. They still got decent enough non maths jobs. Who knows though if another uni couldve translated that experience into progression to maths based career.

I can see that you really care about your son making his own decision which is right for him, and are taking steps not to interfere/ influence his decision. But if i were in your shoes, I would take a bigger step back and stay quiet, encourage him to make his own decision without input as this is an important life skill.

As an employer I see Gen Z’s soft skills and independence/ resilience declining from previous generations and I’m curious whether this is the result of greater parental involvement? My parents were supportive of university but not overly involved - can’t imagine my mum telling her colleagues the ins and outs of university life like my colleagues/family do with their kids. Or posting on mumsnet.

Not suggesting you are interfering as obviously your son wants your help, but just some food for thought.

Hmmm I don’t agree- they are telling him what to do rather than coaching him to make his own decision, that is right for him

I think the problem that you really have OP is that unfortunately your DS doesn't seem to have any strongly positive feelings about any of his offers.
My son is to some degree ripping up his golden ticket of University choices (though his preferred place is pretty highly regarded too) but the difference is that he has very strong feelings on the subject, and what I have to agree are logical reasons for his choice. So whilst I do still have a certain amount of anxiety over the issue I understand and support his choice. It would be much harder if he didn't have firm views of his own.
I think pretty much everyone is agreed that there is strong evidence that Warwick is the best course. The harder question is whether it is the best choice for your DS. I think all you can do is encourage him to go to the offer holders days with an open mind and hope that something "clicks" with him on a second look. If it doesn't and he remains unsure I would probably nudge him towards Warwick, for no other reason than as a PP said, if it doesn't work out, he's more likely to be able to move to Leeds or somewhere similar from Warwick than vice versa so it leaves a little bit more flexibility.
It's a stressful time but there's a lot of positives you can take too. Your son is clearly very bright. He's got offers from a range of Universities none of which are "bad" places to study or live. And whilst without doubt some people do do much better in particular environments I think that most are able to thrive in a variety of situations. Lots of young people aren't able to attend their ideal University but still go on to have a great experience and successful careers so being at the "wrong" institution doesn't have to be a disaster. One way or another, your DS is a very able young man and he's going to study a good degree at a good University. In all likelihood he is going to be successful in whatever career he chooses. Good luck to him whatever he chooses!

I have to agree with this.
Its so obvious a school would push for Warwick just as they do for Oxbridge applications. It rarely has anything to do with what is suited to an individual personality and everything to do with promoting their own school.

Remain cautious OP as I’m sure your son is.

I'd choose Durham then Warwick. I wouldn't consider Leeds for maths. Plenty of music at Durham too.