Agonising between university offers

[Redhotchillipeppers]

DS had narrowed his university offers down to Warwick, Durham and Leeds. He has applied for maths and is predicted 4A stars. Warwick is ranked considerably higher for maths than the other 2, but not keen on the travel from leamington spa/coventry in years 2&3. It is 2.5 hour drive from us. Durham seems like a great student experience, but heard some stories about lack of student accommodation in years 2&3, coming with a very high price tag. Leeds is on the doorstep and several of DSs friends are planning on going there. Both he and us are struggling to decide on what would be best.

A great post from@MrsAvocet , making the distinction between the best course and the best choice for DS.

Sorry if I missed this red but what kind of school does your DS attend?

Your average state comprehensive school really isn't measured by what universities students go to - but overall progression rates to HE . Perhaps Oxbridge aside as a blunt measure.

This is just genuine curiosity! It feels a bit of a parallel universe to little old me!

Local papers and nationals photographing and interviewing students getting their grades and publishing what Unis they are going to.
Heads will always be shaking the hands of the Oxbridge / Russell group success stories.
Its quite disgusting actually. What about all those students who achieved above and beyond their expected grades.

Honestly, local papers haven't really done that for years now. Partly because of some GDPR issues. Partly because the 'local paper' barely exists.

The RG isn't even on the radar in the school I work in (perfectly normal school ).

All our assemblies are about value added . Of course if someone does brilliantly and secures a Oxbridge place they get laurels too. But other destinations don't get mentioned at all in despatches.

It was more the idea of a headteacher even knowing any pupil let alone their planned destinations that made me chuckle.

It's a chicken and egg thing isn't it? As is clearly demonstrated on many threads on here, that's how many parents judge a school, and as funding is linked to pupil numbers it is not surprising that schools publicise Oxbridge/RG successes. That then perhaps fuels the fixation that some parents have that their children must go to one of a few specific Universities, and so it continues.
It's a shame that young people who are achieving well and reaching or exceeding their targets are seen as "failures" and some people are scornful of perfectly good institutions. Not that I'm saying it doesn't matter where you go or that it is a decision to be taken lightly but I think sometimes there is a tendency to catastrophise if a young person doesn't get 4 A stars at A level and attend one of a handful on Universities when in reality most people will not achieve this and most will have happy and fulfilled lives.

Yes agree, great post @MrsAvocet - it really is true that someone as smart and engaged as your ds is @Redhotchillipeppers will do well wherever. He has a great trio of unis there. Most dc ime if suited in general to uni, have a good time where they go. It maybe wasn't their first choice, or perhaps they couldn't decide, but they get so much out if it, be it Leeds or Warwick or Bristol or Leicester.

We have such a ridiculous system

In other European countries such as Germany, France and Italy you go to your nearest Uni and usually commute from home

Companies hire you based on the degree and not the University because they're equal

And having our stupid system we then give away places at our own top universities to international students

Agree.
schools should also pride themselves on those who do not go to University but chose alternative pathways.
At least this would celebrate diversity.

In the real world nobody will care which of those three unis he went to. They’re all great unis. My DD has an offer from Warwick and is turning it down because she can’t see herself coping with living there for 3 years, though my friend’s son did maths there and loved it. It depends on the individual I guess.

This.

@Piggywaspushedthe only reason the head teacher knows DS is because DS was invited by the Royal Society to receive an award (so those of you baffled by the Durham offer, that probably answers your question as that’s the only think I can think of on his PS that could have swung that). I won’t what it was for as it would give his identity way, considering I’ve mentioned he’s at a state school and our rough location. An invitation to the Royal Society had never happened in the history of the school. And the only reason he asked DS about his university offers and what his plans are is because DS was in the head teachers office collecting another award.

@UpsideLeft completely agree with you -it is a ridiculous system. I wish it was like Germany, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

In other news DS very much enjoyed the supervision session at Warwick. Nothing to do with the maths as such, but liked the fact that the 4th year student is also working at the place that offered him a job after 3rd year and is able to bring that experience to the teaching.

<Well the Oxbridge comment isn't exactly helpful for those rejected after interview only for the place to be given to an overseas student bringing in the cash>
@UpsideLeft the latter part of your statement is a myth, for example see data from Oxford for acceptance rates according to domicile https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/overall-numbers

IMO Choice rather than chance by location for university is a positive. The OP’s DS will eventually decide between his excellent well deserved options He will to balance his comfort zone for the short term and ambitions for the longer term. He will have exercised autonomy in doing so.

Oh, amazing. Well done to him!

Italy? Their world ranking universities are??? Mostly sinking without trace. DD went to one. 88,000 students. Be careful what you wish for! Chaotic. Can take years to get your degree because you can retake numerous times. Students smoking, snogging and eating in lectures. The system might appeal but reality is something different.

If he wants any kind of quant job then 100% employers will care which of those three universities he went to. And Warwick is the only one they will rate.

@Geebray That’s exactly what I’ve said to him. But he’s said he doesn’t want to be a quant. I’d rather he kept his options open as he’s has no idea which area he might want to work in. He said right now he just wants to do maths and will figure out what area interests him most as an undergrad.

Ha ha ha.

Sure, I was just pointing out to a PP that employers do look at which university you went to, especially with maths.

Anyway, fingers crossed he chooses Warwick, and will enjoy the learning. My DC's best friend is there doing maths, and loving it.

Mine really enjoyed the Warwick supervision sessions and we found the parents Q&A useful too.
Ds's friend has a super low offer from Durham, he thinks his is a mix of being contextual and doing well on the entry test.

I think he should go by which city he thinks he will feel happiest in.waewick has had a Field's medal winner which has boosted their research profile and difference in world rankings, thus has very little to do with the undergraduate experience or hiw employers regard their graduates. In fact in such cases a great research programme is sometimes at tge expense of teaching

Hi, OP - A fellow who ‘just wants to do maths’ and had your DS’ talent may be a potential researcher. In that case, the ranking

Warwick > Durham Leeds

will affect applications for PG study. However ultimately he can do a funded British PhD with a First from any of these unis and probably a decent, funded American one with a 2.1

The great thing about university is the breadth of options available. I know a Trinity Cambridge maths grad who actually did his PhD at Leeds. His brother “only” got a 2:2 in maths from Cambridge and took a year to get a job. A 2:2 is pretty unusual at these top unis I think! However careers advice and suitable options abound for most and surely dc end up doing what they enjoy? Maths opens so many doors . We have a friend whose DC did maths at Warwick and now teaches. So DC should do what they enjoy and take options to support career choices.

Don't you think he should go where the students have the highest UCAS points then?

Warwick has been top notch for maths since before the Fields Medal.