How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

I think I would be more concerned if my child was struggling and depressed than their class of degree. Different people develop and peak at different times, hence the big gap in summer born boys going to university.

I wonder if you offered an extremely high level of structure and support while she was at school so that she found it hard to transition to organising herself at university. Not blaming you, but when all your clothes are clean and ironed, your home is clean and your bed lined changed, dinner is on the table, the fridge and cupboards are full and someone will drive you to meet up with friends / collect you at the end of the evening, it can come as a shock to realise you have to do all that for yourself, study and socialise.

You don’t mention her experience of the world of work. In the past I have had the pick of graduates after they have been through the application process and have found that, all things being equal, candidates who have done real jobs in their gap year / university holidays had a better understanding of the world of work than those with a carefully curated CV solely comprising very expensive internships / work experience programmes abroad.

People have posted about some great career trajectories of those with thirds. I know lots of people that went straight to work after A Levels or went to Polytechnics. Lots are now in the top 1% of earners - more men than women. However, with a greater percentage of young people now going to university (in the 60s it was only 6-7%) and greater female participation in the world of work / in senior roles, access to graduate programmes is often very competitive and restricted to those with a 1st / 2.1.

anything to ensure an ensure a

Ugggh! Please ignore the gibberish. I had a bad night.

I do know someone who couldn't get an interview with one of the big firms in his 40s despite being a qualified actuary because he has a 2.2. It's ridiculous but it does happen.

@LondonPapa the snobbish attitude of your post is outrageous 😂
If you were to deny having a degree, then you've closed the door to every graduate position (who often do not specify what classification you need), as well as now have a three year gap on your CV.

I wouldn't worry too much. Both of my children got a 2:2, and they have both gone on to have amazing careers. It was also a shock, because they both worked SO hard. My son did a 5 year degree and he is an absolute boffin. Easily the cleverest and brainiest person I know, and he put the graft in, but it was a very difficult degree. My daughter also worked her butt off, for 4 years. I thought they would get Firsts. They were initially disappointed, but in the general scheme of things it hasn't mattered.

They both have excellent jobs now, which are more impressive on their CV than their degree marks. I would think the most important thing is for your DD to get a good job now. One that requires a degree level of education. Otherwise what was it all for? Volunteering and travelling can wait.

If you’re looking to do a qualification in second language English teaching, please look to do the CELTA. It carries much more weight than a TEFL. Many employers will only accept CELTA qualified instructors.
The CELTA can be completed through an intensive, month-long, programme. I think they’re usually done throughout August so she may slip in if she finds a centre and applies ASAP.
I’d recommend the face to face classes rather than online as it really helps to work in collaboration with others and be able to see how other people approach the work.
It’s really hard work but very rewarding and may boost her confidence.

Had this argument on another thread recently

Whilst it is true a third won't get you on most grad schemes, it's not true a 2:2 won't. Most of the Civil Service fast stream is open to people with 2.2 or above, for example.

She shouldn't feel ashamed, despite struggling with stress and mental health problems, she has completed a degree and passed.
You say she has struggled with marks throughout, it sounds like she may not have understood what the markers wanted, perhaps she needed some study skills sessions.
The most important thing now is help for her self esteem and mood.

That's a good point. Our main programmes are four years so that cohort will be graduating next year but we're expecting marks to be way down. They've struggled as a group but there's also a tail of students who aren't able for the programme and weren't helped by generous estimated marks.

I think people need to stop with the anecdotes about highly go getting people with 3rds being world leaders when they graduated in the 70s and 80s. Times are different. Very few went to uni then and there was often a sort of 'amused cachet' attached to firsts and thirds(Douglases as they were called). Louche young men from privileged backgrounds who did very little work were telling dinner party stories about their Douglases. It's like bloody Clarkson boasting annually about his 2Es at A level. Can't see how it helps OP.

How do you know that was the reason?! Was it in the person specification? At that point there was presumably an awful lot more they were judging candidates on

She did mention this in her OP. But it's a long fall form possibly slightly over rewarded ABB to a third. There were obviously bigger issues.

It depends what her degree was - a Third in English lit for example is nigh impossible to get. A Third in molecular medicine is more likely.

I got a third, from a Russell Group uni too. It was a science degree and I struggled massively with maths. The final papers that were maths related were an utter disaster. I was just thankful I actually passed. In hindsight, my tutors should have taken me aside in earlier years and said, look your maths just isn’t up to it, you should switch to a subject that is less maths reliant. But this was a long time ago and that kind of student support was the exception not the norm.

I’ve had a great career and I can honestly say that having a third has never impacted what I wanted to do. It does depend on what field your DD wants to go into, but there are graduates jobs out there where it won’t be an issue, and once she starts getting experience then the significance starts receding.

Just a final thought though - if she’s still struggling with her MH, then this could also carry over into her working life too. It seems to me that addressing her MH is a much higher priority than anything else including job hunting.

Oh - and I have a First. Sibs didn't go to uni at all. I'm not the higher earner out of us by any measure. Academia is not the be all and end all.

Yes, the CS allows you to apply with a 2.2 (as covered by some will blah blah) but it is irrelevant as OP's daughter has a third.

Yes it was in the spec, as it tends to be for our profession - after all, most actuaries have come through with consistently high grades. But not everyone takes the default path, and it's ridiculous to exclude an experienced professional because of their degree results - especially at a time and in a place where there weren't many with that qualification.

OP, yes, some doors will now be closed but not all. She will still have plenty of opportunities, she'll just need to find them.

I would imagine that the course stretched her capacity to its limit, and that the grade she achieved represented the optimum performance she is personally capable of in that subject. Which is still a considerable achievement.
Unfortunately we have a collective view that hard work will get us the results we hope for, which tends to ignore the fact that people's inate capabilities, speed of learning, ability to understand and apply, plus aptitude for the subject varies widely.
I've seen many people who are getting by in their field of choice only by way of excessive work, that takes a toll on their lifestyle, mental health and confidence.
If there are no obvious reasons your DD got this grade, despite what sounds like working to her full capacity, and impacting her MH in the process, I'd be encouraging her to think about whether she might be happier doing something that came a little easier.

She didn't party that much, but could she have been distracted by other things? The people I knew who got thirds had become obsessed with am dram and spent all their time thinking about their characters, or student politics and spent all their time hanging around in the Union offices - they all went to the library and lectures but didn't always take their actual conscious mind with them, as it was occupied elsewhere...

It may be that she failed to submit coursework on time or failed/didn't turn up to exams at various points and did not submit claims for extenuating circumstances. At some unis resits would then be 'capped' and this could really bring the average down. If you look at her transcript you will be able to see what happened.

It’s almost impossible to get into a teaching course with a 3rd nowadays.

She would be better finding a low level job in a good company that will train her and progress her.

(Unless she has a physics or Maths degree!)

Some unpleasant responses on this thread.

Sometime you just struggle, I studied a medical discipline and was good in most classes was working at a first level for the first 3 years in almost every class bar one.

However that was 1 core class I just couldn't get no matter how hard I tried. The lecturers where amazing always trying to help (I would definitely have failed without them) but I constantly rode a 40% on that class and each 'just scrape a pass' felt like a bloody miracle.

It dragged my average down and then as my health got worse and I dropped slightly in the others classes (due to being in and out of hospital and missing compulsory classes) it got bad dragging everything down.

Its not that didn't try hard or was 'bad' at it, I was bad at just 1 class and then suffered health issues. I had to take time out and while I passed my qualification academically I still don't have my full license as I didn't get to complete my internship.

Well apart from the graduate schemes where the employer specifically states a minimum classification (2:1, 2:2 etc) of degree to be considered for the role.