How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

Either a BA or BSc - depends on options taken in 2/3 years- both get her to where she wants to be.

Yes I did, probably my formula that I gave my students might not be the most helpful then, was going to offer to PM it you, if relevant of course. I’d say it’s more relevant in the pure humanities, English, history, theology etc

She worked as a cleaner (in private houses) for a couple of years and got funding / continued working. This was in the days when grants were still readily available.

Ah fair enough.
I’m glad she got a second chance!

https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/third-class-degree-jobs

This covers most of the suggestions on here - work experience/ further study or find the employers who focus on having a degree - and work out what the problems were.

I really would encourage her to contact the careers service at the university when she feel up to it - they should be able to help her work out the next steps when she is ready.

@Idlovetoknow - some round up, some have more nuanced criteria like if you are within two marks of the higher class and your major project was in the higher class or your third year average (where a bad second year is pulling you down) was in the higher class you get raised. It can get quite complicated. There’s also the question of whether any formal mitigation was submitted as that can affect decisions on discretion.

Hi, OP -

My School monitors UG performancecand shares concerns with Personafl Tutors. The PT and the School UG Support Officer both reach out to students who are clearly underperforming, but if they prefer not to engage we only contact them twice per semester. I don’t know how typical we are (we are RG STEM).

Your DD should have been getting module marks and yearly average marks all along, so, gently, this shouldn’t have been a complete surprise. The MH aspect is huge, of course, and will have affected her perceptions of workload and work efficacy.

MH comes first. This is by no means the end of the world although it may constrain the next steps of the journey. Once she regains her MH your DD will see this as a detour rather than a dead end. Best wishes to her

That's a very kind offer but DD1 not started yet so no idea what they are looking for and if it will be a problem for her - fingers crossed it won't be.

I suspect she'll stay on the more science side so more lab work but it's entirely new subject for her and sometimes you fall in love with the bits you don't expect and hate the bits you expect to love - at least that was my experience of my first degree.

No Masters course in England asks for a First as a minimum requirement. Of course it might give you an edge to have one, but nowhere is it a listed requirement

thing47 tbf there are a number of course at Oxford and Cambridge where although a First isn't a listed requirement, it is a de facto pre-requisite to getting an offer. The BCL at Oxford is just one of a number which springs to mind.

Yes, when my students have had MSc offers from Oxford the condition has usually been a First at BSc.

There are a number of MPhils at Cambridge where a First is definitely a pre-requisite, although the wording on the website isn't specific.

The Bachelor of Civil Law (BCL) is a world-renowned taught graduate course in law, designed to serve outstanding law students from common law backgrounds. The academic standard is significantly higher than that required in a first law degree, and only those with outstanding first law degrees are admitted

I think that's pretty clear even to the wilfully obtuse!

Just a thought, has she been penalised for late submission of any papers, dissertation etc? This happened to my DS, laptop crashed when he was sending his dissertation and like an idiot he didn’t think to check it had been received. It hadn’t, he resent it, but missed the deadline. Massive penalty which did affect his classification. (I think she would know this though.)

In the nicest way I can say, those commenting about their (or friends’) success with a third are probably in their 40s plus. Realistically it’s like what used to be a C at GCSE, a 2.1 is the passing mark. Unless a lot has changed since I left uni, most grad schemes (whatever the basic requirements say) won’t pick up those less than a 2.2 and even then they would need to be exceptional in some other way. Yes that includes teaching (unless a Mathematics or similar graduated).

I would go for a training route aimed at non grads in a good firm or organisation when she feels ready.

I think to have reached this point she must be really quite unwell so give her time and TLC.

Not sure how this got sidetracked into proving points about needing a first for Oxford MPhils...

Quite so @goodbyestranger I agree with you and I address precisely this point in my second post, which I think you must have missed. The BCL is a very specific qualification, and not one which would be covered by most people's common understanding of a 'Masters' imho.

Some posters will do anything to get a chance to mention Oxbridge 😅

Absolutely shocking that the tutors didn't communicate this to you. DSs tutors have always been really clear on how to up your marks e.g.: if you had given more citations, you'd get a better grade. He doubled his citations and got better grades. he was sad about his grades at first but they went up when he did as they suggested. You can't do that if your tutors aren't specific!

@sevenbyseven

3 years preclinical + 1 year of deeper depth options/research dissertation is BA Physiological sciences. See it like a compulsory equivalent to the intercalated BSc that a lot of people do at other medical schools. This is classified the same as other degrees.

(strictly speaking, you could do any BA instead. Someone in my year’s BA was Exp Psych, and he did a 4th to do it).

Then you reapply for clinical, and that is pass or fail BMBCh

So, you leave with a BA and BMBCh after 6 years (and if you want, it can be converted to MA BMBCh).

Gah - 3 years preclinical INCLUDING 1 year options

I got a third. Poor choice of degree, the exams were heavily biased towards memory which I'm poor at, rather than principles, research and extrapolation which I'm fucking great at.

Fortunately I've gone on to have no problem careerwise because I can avoid the need for memorisation and just look shit up these days.

(Bright kid top of the class GCSEs, AABB at A-levels, coasted on intelligence and then hit a wall in my 2nd year at uni when the targets changed! And like others I didn't ask for and didn't get help for my actual problem, so... anyway, it hasn't mattered)

Not sure how this got sidetracked into proving points about needing a first for Oxford MPhils...

Because it was directly in response to a poster saying no masters programme in England required a First, which isn't correct.

Apologies though thing47 if you wrote an earlier post with a caveat - I hadn't seen it.

Some posters will do anything to get a chance to mention Oxbridge

Well rather hard not to in the context of citing masters programmes which do actually require a First, because the ones which do are offered at those two unis :)

I do wonder if some DC say they are working when they are not. Or not working effectively. You can work and miss a deadline for example. So I think some Dc can be in denial. Parents are excluded from the loop so really don’t know. After all, it’s not them at uni so they can be told “I’m really working hard” but actuality it’s not what’s required or it’s just not GDL or inc, for whatever reason. Sorry if that’s been said already but some Dc cannot admit there is an issue!