DD is prioritising student satisfaction so ruling out a lot of RG unis

[Satisfiedstudent]

My DD thinks student satisfaction is one of the most important factors in university decision-making so she is ruling out a lot of the top universities. She says most of the Russell Group unis are very poorly rated and whenever I suggest somewhere (Cardiff, Birmingham…. ) she whips out the Sunday Times guide book my mum bought her and promptly dismisses it. My DH thinks this is reasonable as a happy student is more likely to do well but I am not so sure that student satisfaction is the be all and end all and wonder what you all think?

I did actually give a whole personal case study on why student satisfaction ratings (as others have said, by subject, not whole uni) are sometimes highly reliable .

I think dismissing student's views as invalid and biased when they have actually lived it is not always a good idea. It's like how headteachers respond to staff wellbeing surveys, or parent OFSTED surveys,or indeed the views of the pupils. The students who responded re DS's course said the course was poorly organised, communication was poor and they did not feel like members of a department. they were correct on all three counts.

I don't think that has anything at all to do with it being a RG uni, as it goes. It was more the nature of a poorly organised inter disciplinary course.

Your DD should look at COURSE LEVEL data, where available.

As an aside - both 'RG' unis ;)

But the League Tables don't give that level of detail, no? Just the numbers.

I've been planning to do a postgraduate course and responses from actual students have been invaluable. On forums such as TheStudentRoom, RateMyProfessor, etc. Even Reddit has some really good feedback. But it's hard work and I had to collate it from various sources.

The OP's DD is just looking at a number and going nope. Unless I'm missing something, and all of this is available, in which case I would be very interested myself.

Agreed -but they all offer different student lifestyles. I went to LSE (many years ago- my criteria was London based ), DT’s went to Warwick and York (not because they are RG) and DH went to McGill (probably a Canadian equivalent of RG.) because he got a scholarship.

Probably because LSE students are very, erm, vocal, and difficult to satisfy. Especially the majority international students.
The place drove me nuts, but I had the time of my life and left such so much more confident and assertive. I'd do it all over again despite stressing about everything at the time.

They break it into quite helpful categories at subject level.

The course is small and niche so there was nothing on any other forum about it. We did try. And the student on Open Days are paid 'ambassadors' so hardly objective or representative...

Can I just mention that Rate My Professor is NOTORIOUS! Surely that is a much much worse source of info than the formally and professionally run NSS?

Most of those rankings are a load of rubbish. More important she has a good time and the course content is what she wants

More granular detail by course is on Discover Uni for those who would like to know.

That's interesting, thanks. I'm surprised to see such great feedback for my course and alma mater.

No, I don't think 'any' of the sources of information are objective. NSS is professionally run, but subject to sampling issues, bias etc. That is not its fault, creating an accurate representation of qualitative data is a postgraduate research subject, notoriously difficult.

RateMyProfessor was just an example - a lot of it is silly, but there were also some gems. What I was looking for was detailed explanations of what went wrong and why, which I could then ask current students. I didn't go via any 'official' channels I looked people up on LinkedIn, the local uni Facebook groups, etc. I found people that I had things in common with and ask them, they were very happy to help.

I don't think EVERYONE needs to do this of course. It depends on how fussy you are, and your mileage may vary. As an undergraduate all I wanted was the most prestigious, went to LSE, job done. But I have always been very academic, competitive and career driven.

As a postgraduate I have got very detailed, module level questions, and a lot more to consider so I had to be more detailed.

Of course, if a course is 'small and niche' I'd imagine you don't have much choice to begin with - so it hinges on a few differentiating factors? They don't have ambassadors for every course, so you could ask them to point you to a few of their mates. hang out in the student bar - see if anybody there can. There's a surprisingly low degree of separation, even in a massive university like LSE someone always knows someone who knows someone.

I get all that. But at the end of the day , my main point is I didn't need to do that because the NSS (which is surely quantitative?) WAS accurate. And we ignored it blame MN

Btw, the best source of information that the course was indeed especially crap came from a parents' group on Facebook! Rather annoyingly, AFTER DS had started the course...!

But he swapped course (same uni) and all is well. Wasn't easy to swap though. Much pleading, begging and grovelling required.

What’s wrong with us international students at LSE?

That’s why parents, those much derided people by the professional higher education staff on here, shouid be listened to. We do actually know something!

how many students know what they want to do after they graduate when they start looking at universities?

Ha, yes @RampantIvy, DD2 did a degree which was, by and large, vocational. During her placement year she discovered it wasn't her vocation at all!! She used her Masters to change direction slightly.

On a different matter DS declared he wanted a university at least 2 hours away from home. On visiting the one he ended up going to we had a really good run and were almost there after 1 hour 40 minutes – I had to slow down and take a few wrong turnings to meet his criterion 😂

I don't know.

One of my son's contemporaries for his Masters, now a family friend, was a real high flyer: G&T Beacon School, CalTech, Harvard Business School and then 10 months out of a successful consultancy career to brush up on financial maths.

She was student rep, and her stories of going into meetings with LSE academics suggesting that "at Harvard..." are quite funny. The sole response was "We are not Harvard, we are the LSE."

Confident, assertive, vocal, difficult to satisfy. Yes. Fun interesting, hard working and a good role model to those setting out in their careers. Certainly. Thing about the LSE is that students are not just international, but also bright, 50% post grad, often older with proper CVs and focussed. Amazing place, but not necessarily easy.

They’re an ancient university and so rank with Oxford and Cambridge.

i would agree with her but I know kids at both Cardiff and Birmingham and they have good student satisfaction.

@AP5Diva Oxford and Cambridge are both Russell Group.

I didn’t say Oxford were not RG?
I said that St Andrews is an Ancient University so rank along with Oxford and Cambridge.
I didn’t say that a university could not be both.

Durham is also Ancient & RG
The idea is St Andrews already belong to a category/group, they don’t need to be in RG too if they do not want to.

Why would you have to deliver her every term? Most universities have good train links. We'll be taking DD to Cardiff at the start but she can get the train after that.

Is that like the Justified Ancients of Mu Mu?

One thing to add about the distance from home debate and the not particularly thinly disguised sneering at DC who need their mummies and blankies instead of being super rich independent solo round the world trippers - sometimes they are not coming home just for support or because they want to see their family. Sometimes they might be bored if their flatmates tend to disappear at weekends. Sometimes there is a BF/GF still at home, or other friends. DS is a first year at uni and more than half of his group of school friends are still here for various reasons. It's perfectly normal for someone to prefer to be within striking distance of home. I mean if it were me it probably wouldn't be top of my priorities but I would definitely take the faff and expense of getting home in the holidays into account, and everyone's different.