DD is prioritising student satisfaction so ruling out a lot of RG unis

[Satisfiedstudent]

My DD thinks student satisfaction is one of the most important factors in university decision-making so she is ruling out a lot of the top universities. She says most of the Russell Group unis are very poorly rated and whenever I suggest somewhere (Cardiff, Birmingham…. ) she whips out the Sunday Times guide book my mum bought her and promptly dismisses it. My DH thinks this is reasonable as a happy student is more likely to do well but I am not so sure that student satisfaction is the be all and end all and wonder what you all think?

I am with your daughter and DH. I would prefer my child to be settled and happy over anything else.

Happy is very important. But please stress to her that those surveys are very flawed as few people attend more than one university to compare!

Completely depends on what she wants to study. There are plenty of Universities that would be better than or equal to Russell Group for some subjects. Suggest that you let her do her research then have a discussion on it.

I agree with her.

And I think it's 100% up to her where she goes.

A quick google of "student satisfaction surveys criticism" gives some interesting talking points. I would have a read around the topic, and then engage her in discussion about how valid these survey results are, and what they actually mean. Are the surveys measuring the right things? Are some universities gaming the results (e.g. pre-surveys to elicit negative feedback beforehand, posters telling students the importance of giving good ratings...)

Happiness at university is extremely important, I agree with her there. But I'm not sure I'd rely mainly on a student satisfaction survey to predict that.

But we are expected to top up the minimum loan (pay accommodation so she can live off minimum loan) and deliver her to and from university. So surely reasonable for us to say that we don’t want to be trogging from Kent to deepest Wales/Aberdeen every term and we can’t afford Bath or Bristol prices?

Has she looked at St Andrews? No, it's not Russell Group, but it's performing as well or better than Oxbridge, which aren't Russell Group either. And it always does really well on student satisfaction too.

Cross post. Yes its a slog from Kent but I'd argue its worth it. Also they only have semesters so potentially less travel.

Ds1 was swayed by this and went for Aberdeen and tbh having visited 3 times now, I was really impressed and could see how students would have grounds for satisfaction.
Their student support have been amazing so far. I studied at 4 universities, I've worked at 4. Aberdeen is just better - better funded, better resourced, they have appointments available and they communicate well.
I'm not sure why so many universities make it so hard for students to get support but it is more important than ever. More students are struggling and if there isn't support for them, there are quite extreme consequences.

There's a nice environment and good combination of ancient campus and up to date equipment.

When I've spoken to lecturers they've seemed passionate about their teaching and have planned interesting assessments. They also seem to care about research and ties to industry.

So in this case, from my perspective it seems like the ratings are warranted.

They're hugely flaws and they do frame lecturers as performing monkeys which obviously bothers me, but I think choice of university is quite overwhelming and young people who choose a system to narrow down their choice seem to have an easier time of it.

I do personally rate Kent though, if it happens to align with her interests - it would be worth a look.

Have to say we have the opposite view to Aberdeen (ds finishing this year) but probably depends on the course.

So surely reasonable for us to say that we don’t want to be trogging from Kent to deepest Wales/Aberdeen every term and we can’t afford Bath or Bristol prices?

I studied with students whose parents lived 400-500 miles away on the mainland or in NI. The ones from NI parents never dropped them off. There parents often randomly came over once. There as the other parents came at the beginning and end of first year, beginning of second year and end of third year.

If you can't drive her back and forth each term then she needs to put her stuff in storage or choose accommodation where she can keep her stuff.

No, I don't think you get a say in where she goes.

I do think that you can tell her how far you'd be willing to drive her.

And I also think that you can say that you will pay the expected parental contribution and no more.

If she then wants to look at more distant and/or more expensive options, then she will need to think about how she will manage the travel/additional costs, and factor that into her decision-making.

FWIW, I do agree with you. I think student satisfaction surveys are inherently flawed. No harm in pointing out those flaws at all, but ultimately, I think you have to respect the fact that this is her decision.

I see where she is coming from but as people have said, the surveys are flawed. Perhaps she could look at the universities rated best for student life/student experience. Plenty decent RGs in there, from memory Leeds, Newcastle, Sheffield and Manchester always do well.

FWIW Aberdeen is a fantastic Uni, one of the Scottish ancients. One that doesn't get attention on these boards as its not Russell Group. Might be far but well connected by train and an airport. Other than perhaps the first drop off your DC should be able to make their way on their own.

What are the sample sizes typically like for the student satisfaction surveys ?

Most of my cohort from my university days - myself included - were pretty apathetic when it came to this type of thing and I'm fairly certain we just wouldn't have bothered responding.

I think armed with plenty of information and visits to open days your DD should choose. I think you need to be careful because I suspect you would only be happy if she chooses a RG University and that you probably don't mind too much which one. Also at this stage she is considering where to apply - she is yet to be offered a place (nothing is certain) and needs a range of options.

I would ask her what is she trying to get out of uni - is it about her three years, her future job prospects, etc. Most great unis dont have good student satisfaction because students are less of a priority for them. And in a way by the time you pay 60k maybe thats fine if it gets you a better job at the end of it. I would definitely consider where she would like to land after uni and whether her degree helps her get there.

Student experiences sometimes but not always correlate to unis themselves. For example, a lot of our students expect to get a 1st and when they dont get annoyed. Is that our dept fault for not explaining it to them that just because they had top A'levels, it doesnt mean they will all get a 1st? Also keep in mind that 75% of our students are international - i.e. very very wealthy international (largely Chinese students). Does you DD have the same student expectations/needs as some of the super elite foreign students??

Furthermore, much of our students' university experience actually relates to where they live i,e, do they love living in London or is it too big. Are they able to manage their finances. Did they make enough friends....etc....etc...etc

Thats not to say that student satisfaction doesn't matter - it does but it needs to be put in the wider context.

I would (and did) absolutely leave it up t them

Cynically my thought was that students at more highly rated unis are too busy studying or having fun to bother with surveys...

But anyway it's up to HER where she goes and up to YOU how much you shell out.

There's also the point that unis that don't make their students work very hard might get higher ratings as those students find it easier.

It completely depends what your DD wants from her degree. A fun 3 years of partying, good job prospects, a fulfilling course, a like-minded peer group, a homely campus, a lively city etc etc. Any of these reasons are valid of course, but they may give different shortlists. And if you are contributing a lot of money, you should have some influence at least.

I really don’t agree that paying entitles parents to influence the decision
We fully funded our DC but they made all the decisions

If they just want to party at the easiest uni to get into, I'd be reluctant to fund it!

@Righthandman I'm really surprised St Andrews isn't Russell Group! It does load of research so I thought it would qualify.

I think student satisfaction is very important. We always checked it when my son was choosing unis. I agree with your dd and dh that it should very much be taken in to consideration. Ultimate decision to choose a uni though was completely my son’s choice.