Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

https://www.ucas.com/advisers/guides-and-resources/adviser-news/news/personal-statements-will-not-be-changing-2024-entry

is all I could find.

I found it hidden in the FAQs about references for 2024 entry.

https://www.ucas.com/advisers/writing-references/changes-undergraduate-references-2024-entry#faqs

All the young people I know at Durham have flawless exam results and have played sport at a very high level. It’s incredibly competitive and I think parents need to understand this before they assume their dc will automatically be offered a place.

OP I studied medieval literature at Durham as a postgraduate, not history I know, but people were easily able to move course. I would also definitely recommend going there. I'd also call the admissions office and say she's super keen on Durham but not so much on archaeology, if she started archaeology and didn't enjoy it is there ant scope for switching? NB I would have thought even if she did archaeology for e.g. a year there'd be optional courses which would include access to more modern history, learning Latin/Ancient Greek etc if those appealed more. I'd also definitely ask what they felt she was missing in case she decides to reapply again next year.

Gee willikers jgw , that's the most buried info ever!!

Of course they will say that, how else would they be able to justify rejections? They need to make decisions given the number of applicants of more or less equal "quality" is far more than the number of places. Pointing at PS that is lacking "the passion" is the simplest thing to do. In reality, it is a hidden lottery, but who would admit that?

What has she got on her application apart from her (impressive) IB grade? I'm not sure how relevant this is, but when I got in to a competitive subject years and years ago, they were looking for quite a bit of "all-roundedness" to show resilience and personality.
It was things like playing a sport at regional level or above, playing in a regional orchestra, being a published writer, out of the ordinary gap year achievements etc.

I don't think my chat with UCAS's communications person at the recent conference quite had the right result!

I have yet to talk to (and I have chatted to many) anyone who works in undergraduate university admissions who is interested in sport, or orchestra, gap years and so on, unless it was relevant to the course that a student was applying to study.

The same thing happened with a friend's DC last year. 10 A star GCSEs and 4 A stars (predicted and ultimately achieved) at A Level. They were rejected by both Oxbridge and Durham and ended up at next tier down university. Friend blamed it all on widening participation and how could anyone be more impressive than their DC. The truth is that the DC went to a top independent school where those results were the norm. They got lots of help from school getting their PS as strong as possible etc. The truth was that they really weren't that impressive as a candidate. They had ample opportunity for supra-curriculars in their school and didn't do them. They needed achievements beyond their exam results to be considered on a par with other candidates with the same grades from a much more challenging environment. It made sense looking in but DC still thinks they were cheated of a place and my friend has done nothing to disabuse them of that.

Or alternatively- given that the person saying this was the department professor in charge of admissions and a very highly respected person in their field - they really do care about PS are are looking for certain things. I didn’t get the feel that they felt the need to justify rejections - they were interested in finding the right people for their department.

I wonder if knitting and juggling skills matter as well.

@albertandlilylight are you able to share any of the other Unis your DC has applied to, and presumably got offers for History from? Whilst I agree your DC checking with Durham that there has not been an admin error (although I think this unlikely) focusing on the positives, and there will be many of them, for your DCs other Uni choices may provide a better context for them and help move forward.

They also said re PS that they didn’t care about hobbies / sport / DofE - they wanted evidence of interest and reading in their subject - and not just a list of books they wanted to know why etc.

I have yet to talk to (and I have chatted to many) anyone who works in undergraduate university admissions who is interested in sport, or orchestra, gap years and so on, unless it was relevant to the course that a student was applying to study.

Point taken, this was for veterinary science in the 90s, so I can easily accept it's not applicable to a history degree in 2023!

Yes it could be the personal statement

Never a good idea to think you are cheated of something, or that your kids are unique.

There are many deserving candidates. And next tier down unis- LSE, Kings, UCL, Imperial, Bath, Notts, St Andrews-- are still fantastic.

One could make sport - physical fitness for big animal practice or playing an instrument - manual dexterity relevant to vet medicine. It all depends how one writes about it.

If anyone is interested in learning more about supra-curricular activities then this is a good guide. I would add that the easiest way for a student to demonstrate an interest in a subject is because it is genuinely what they spend their time doing when they have some spare time.

https://www.worc.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/files/page/supercurricular_guide_0.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2vRcl132K-A-rGDt2lQ9ZDl9ycLJcycGYvqnHVtJBi4d95U-TBwI5bzCg

One could make sport - physical fitness for big animal practice or playing an instrument - manual dexterity relevant to vet medicine. It all depends how one writes about it.

Ok, but that's not how it was explained to me at the time.

Probably was the PS then.

These very respectable people must realise how little the "quality" of the personal statement has to do with the personality of the 18 year old child submitting it and with the probability that this child will become a successful student.

LSE has a lower offer rate and more applicants per place than Durham for History.
Some of the other institutions you list don't have History degrees.

These very respectable people must realise how little the "quality" of the personal statement has to do with the personality of the 18 year old child submitting it and with the probability that this child will become a successful student.

I'm not sure that's fair. 18 has, until very, very recently, been considered adult aged. Researching, drafting and refining a high quality personal statement shouldn't be beyond an academic 18 year old.

I am afraid I can’t comment on whether anything can be done at this point as I know nothing about that. I do really sympathise with the disappointment. All I can say is something that it will be hard for your dd at this point in life to believe, which is that it isn’t necessarily the blow it seems. Many people I know, including myself, had their heart set on certain universities or courses and went to great lengths to get the place only to find that the institutions and the experience of a certain time and place isn’t what you expect. I have read some very negative things about Durham university recently.