Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

I am not talking only about History degrees. I am saying that very many deserving candidates will have to settle for 2nd or even 3rd choice unis because competition is fierce. In general.

Well you are obviously going to disagree with me whatever I say as it doesn’t suit your narrative 😊

Never mind the department professor in charge of admissions at Durham agrees with you.

And I didn’t use the word “quality” at any point - I said they were looking for certain things which is very different to a subjective determination of quality.

i would say that her PS is very reflective of her as a person - she wrote it herself after all. Obv I’m biased she received an offer a couple of months back but I feel certain she didn’t have the highest grades of those who applied for her course - very good grades (and grades in excess of the course requirements) but not 4 A stars and 10 x 9’s which leads me to think for them to offer her that early (she’s non contextual) must have had something to do with the PS.

Assuming that it’s not an administrative error, have you considered that Durham might think that archaeology is a better fit for your DC based on the PS?

I would be surprised if archaeology is an undersubscribed course at Durham.

(Is Klute really still there? That place was a death trap).

I have a tually been involved in student admissions at 2 UK universities, including Durham. You're right about gap years, but completely and utterly wrong about things like orchestras and sport, particularly if practiced at a high level.

Music exams directly contribute to your points tarrif. Even if it has nothing to do with your course, having a track record in music examinations will directly help your application. Someone with 4 A stars and grade 8 music is a stronger candidate than someone with 4 A stars and no music. Particularly at Durham. Involvement in orchestras, particularly at a regional (as opposed to school) level is seen in a very positive light. Durham is actually very keen on involvement in Theatre.

And sport.....well, most places I've worked I would say it wouldn't help much but I'm afraid Durham is sport mad in my experience (Although more that 10 years since I was there).

1, Call Durham. 2. Consider a gap year and then apply to Oxbridge, Durham etc the year after. May be Durham was wanting children from worse schools (although it probably more likely that every year the best places reject people who are good at everything as there are simply so many from which to choose it is a bit like picking a number our of a hat).
Perhaps consider a subject which is less popular than history for next time if a gap year is taken. Eg some of my children did ancient history.
Three of mine by the way rejected Durham offers for Bristol as even though I am from the NE and think Durham is really good, they wanted to be a bit closer to London where we live. They all really enjoyed Bristol and those three are all now either lawyers or trainee solicitors.

It's hard to tell what they're using to accept or reject some students. If they are using personal statements its quite misguided as they can be written by somebody else. I suppose the problem this year is that students in year 13 didn't actually take exams so GCSE grades may not be reliable and everyone who applies to Durham seems to be predicted 3A stars. I'm sure a lot of people won't meet their grades this year, but I don't think Durham go into clearing so that's not much help. I've heard from quite a reliable source that a lot of the more “competitive” universities are aiming for more international rather than UK students as they have to pay higher fees.

Not really, moving into an oversubscribed course is almost impossible. Moving to one that is not that full may be possible, but not always.

It is a bit different when competition for entry is not as fierce.

My DS didn't get to sit either GCSEs or AS. They may not be entirely "made up" grades but in many cases they don't reflect the grades the student might have achieved if they'd sat exams. He is coming up to the end of 1st year in uni and doesn't consider those exam grades as 'his'.

Just checked (retired and out of date)....an A* is worth 56 points, music grade 8 with distinction is worth 30 points. It all counts.....

I can't speak for universities, but I taught on some over-subscribed college courses. We interviewed all prospective students. I wasn't directly involved much, only in some isolated cases where I was asked to consider ability in my own specialism, but I do know the staff (and I too when involved) didn't really give a toss about anything other than the student's committment to the subject, attitude to learning, and their actual skills in the subject (art and design courses- they had to bring a portfolio of examples of their work with them). Whether they played the banjo or spent their free time climbing trees or whatever would have no bearing on it- except in so far as I'd be wondering why they hadn't been drawing or painting instead.

I'd also call the admissions office and say she's super keen on Durham but not so much on archaeology, if she started archaeology and didn't enjoy it is there ant scope for switching?

This is diabolical advice. The only person who should be calling the admissions office - if anyone - is the candidate. Not his/her parent.

FWIW, OP, I think your DC has dodged a bullet. There are plenty of universities which offer excellent History courses. Durham has a good university (and knows it), but the city itself is unspeakably dreary and there is sod all to do. I imagine that being at the university would be slightly like being at Oxford (I only know Oxford, so can't comment on Cambridge), but without the nightlife, shopping or culture.

When did your child apply? The deadline for Cambridge and Oxford is in October so it is not surprising for highly competitive courses to be full and closed to new applications by the start of December.

DS’ predicted grades met the standard offer for UCL and Imperial, but he didn’t get an offer for either, I assume that by the time his application was sent at the start of December they must have been already snowed in with thousands of applications from students with similar grades.

It is easier to swap between courses once you are in.

Only between courses within the same school or department. Even then “easier” is relative and they have to have places to fill.

As someone who has quite a bit of experience with university admissions: for most subjects, extracurricular activities, unless extremely relevant to the course, do not matter nowadays for most courses in the UK (it's probably a bit different in the USA). It would usually be considered as discriminatory to select on that basis, as people's opportunities for extracurricular activities vary widely. In any case, universities are not looking for 'all-rounders' or people with interesting personalities; they are looking for the best-suited to their chosen course, in terms of both ability and motivation. Whether they always make the right choice, may be another matter, especially if there are lots of outstanding applicants for a popular course at a prestigious university. The PS is mainly used to assess extent of and reasons for motivation (not sure how well it really does that), rather than personality or 'excitingness'. Many courses supplement their other measures with aptitude tests. School references are taken into account, so if someone gets lots of unexpected rejections it may be worth trying to find out whether someone at their school might have reservations about them (though this is not a common reason). Ultimately, a certain amount comes down to sheer luck.

I don't know if that's true for Durham. I don't think they particularly like people who would rather go to Oxford or Cambridge and they often don't seem to start making offers until March for a lot of courses.

When did your child apply? The deadline for Cambridge and Oxford is in October so it is not surprising for highly competitive courses to be full and closed

Rubbish. The UCAS equal consideration deadline is in January.

This was a thing for me.....at some point in the past public schools had to do more community stuff to maintain charitable status. Many set up development charities to satisfy this aim. Then suddenly every public school applicant had a great list of charitable work on their CVs.

So.....the requirement to do some sort of charitable work provided their pupils with opportunities to increase their chances of getting into university by doing charitable work!!!

Bizarre...

@user You may find this fascinating but the % of students who get their predicted grades or higher is minimal. The fact that everybody got their predicted grades when the exams were suspended is a clear indication of grade inflation for a considerable number of of students.

Having said that, it is unfair to call them “made up grades” the whole of the 2 Covid cohorts were exactly in the same situation, so it was not that they were unfairly taking other students’ places. I guess we will know how “made up” the grades were next year, as then we will know how many made it to graduation.

Universities loss hope she loves where she goes

How is the offer worded? I am so old that it was UCCA not UCAS in my day but surely they can’t just write a single word course name, randomly not one that was applied for, on the response? Would they not have to say “we’re sorry we can’t take you for history because Xxx but we think you may find Archaeology a better fit with your stated interests/A level subjects or something? How weird.

Unless of course you apply to a 'grades' uni. Eldest had grades 6/7 in two instruments plus lots of other extra-curricular stuff. Uni she wanted didn't care!

It's done as a "counter offer" on UCAS. (all online)

My dd has one from another uni (that she is taking up). They also emailed her to let her know that she hadn't got into her chosen course but were offering her this alternative.