Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

Or, in terms of numbers -

These stats are all from the Oxford Admissions Report. There are similar breakdowns for other factors such as school type, POLAR, ACORN, ethnic groups. It's published every year. There is similar for Cambridge. Not sure how Durham present their admissions data.

I think it's very difficult to accurately compare the perceived difficulty of different qualifications.

In Scotland you have a year's less schooling than England, hence the four year bachelor's degree. That's why many students start university after highers (yr 12) rather than completing advanced highers at school and going after year 13.

Scottish advanced highers are considered to be a similar qualification to an A level. The map above shows the number of AAA grades at advanced higher, compared to AAA at A level. However in UCAS points, an A at advanced higher is 56 points, the same as an A star at A level. So the Scottish area of the map indicates the number of candidates who have the equivalent in UCAS points of 3 A stars.

Oxford recognises the difficulty of advanced highers by lowering their standard AAA offer at A level to that of AAB at advanced higher. Many other universities don't, however, and still treat AAA at advanced higher as equal to AAA at A level.

Aurea - I wouldn't know how they draw comparisons between qualifications, eg Scottish AH or the IB. They are obviously having to do similar with qualifications from across the world, as are all unis.

We had a very similar experience at the Durham open day. DS couldn’t wait to leave. For the PPE lecture the lecturer didn’t event turn up - it was a pre-recorded video by somebody who was incredibly dull and uninspiring, who though he was sharing a PowerPoint presentation but wasn’t, we stayed to the end but many people walked out.

Oxford recognises the difficulty of advanced highers by lowering their standard AAA offer at A level to that of AAB at advanced higher. Many other universities don't, however, and still treat AAA at advanced higher as equal to AAA at A level.

Cambrige do the opposite and use the A1/A2 breakdown of Advanced Highers (I don’t know anyone else who uses this) so an A1 is required for A star, and A2 for an A.

That's why many students start university after highers (yr 12) rather than completing advanced highers at school and going after year 13.

How many actually do go after Highers? Nobody in my DC’s year went at that stage, they all stayed on for S6.

Cambrige do the opposite and use the A1/A2 breakdown of Advanced Highers

I think that was also reflected in English applicants having to put in convert UMS scores into raw marks back when A levels were modular?

@Itsmebutnotme - from reading your review about the Durham open day, it does sound like you visited with the intent to confirm the stereotypes you'd heard about Durham, and to rule it out rather than rule it in.

And btw, the Hill colleges are less than a mile from the Bailey colleges. 20-30 minutes walk from the Hill to the centre at the very most.

I have to say for all my criticisms of Durham’s lack of representation we have had an amazing experience at both the open day and offer holders day. Students were fantastic (we only visited Bailey College and Mary’s) and the academic staff were great and wholly engaged- I have raced about the sociology department on here several times but they totally sold their subject - they really were amazing.

Colleges not college (we went to Castle, Chads, Johns, Hatfield and Mary’s).

Why the hate for Lurpak?

Sorry wrong thread!

Aurea has just explained it very clearly.

I completely agree Aurea it's like comparing apples and bananas. Many pupils who get 5 X A at Higher don't go on to do 3 X Advanced Highers, so numbers are low. Why would they all do this when they will get offers based on their Highers?

Also not all schools by a very long shot offer Adv H in all subjects. You'll get Maths/ Eng/ Sciences routinely, but not always and often little else. Or pupils decide to widen their education by doing extra Highers instead. e.g DS who got 5X A1s at H took Adv H Maths and Physics but had no access to Adv H Geography (even H Geography in his school is a small subject- 8 in the class) at his school/ other schools/ the University Hub (where he did his Maths) and had no interest in English/ Chemistry. So he then took 3 extra Highers - Biology/ Graphics/ PE to broaden his experience.

So despite having 8 Hs at A1 and 2 Adv H at A1 he, and others like him, who were at the very top of his cohort, due to only sitting 2 Adv H would not be 'comparable' according to this system to those with 3 A* A levels. It's a nonsense.

It was a crap open day, that was our experience. 1. We live in an area where privately educated children are 10 a penny and 2. It was not the only 'posh'/poshest/elite university we viewed. It was the only one which seemed 'unapologetically them and us' in places, add an uncomfortable experience in a gourmet burger bar in the town and eh voila - our own minds made up. @DeadOrchid states that they had a similar experience. That 20 minute walk seems longer when you are not quite sure where you are going. We overtook several other parents and DC's on the way who also seem to feel this was a long walk. Apparently there was a short cut but we missed it. Other 'similar' universities, felt much better - Bristol stands out as a particular favourite. If it makes you feel better, it was only second to last of the universities we visited.

Wow! thats even worse than Economics and not what you would expect at all. Warwicks PPE lecture was the best we saw.

The Durham open day was by far the worst. Badly organised and the students with the flags on their backs didn’t seem to be able to offer any practical advice about how to get to places.

The tour of one of the hill colleges was ok, but the student doing the tour was quite bitter that she’d been rejected from Oxford and her boyfriend had a place.

DS was really disappointed and didn’t apply. He was rejected from Oxford which wasn’t much of a surprise, and has accepted Lancaster which was a completely different experience to Durham and probably a much better fit.

@Puffalicious - it doesn't say they are comparing three A grades at A-level with three A grades at AH. It says it is comparing the proportions of those who gained three A grades at A-level with "the equivalent" in terms of the Scottish curriculum. So, if an A grade at A-level is worth 48 UCAS points (so 3 x 48 = 144 UCAS points) that would be equivalent to three Bs in AHs which are also worth 48 UCAS points each. I took it to mean that's how they would compare. Otherwise they would be looking at the stats for three A star A-level grades or the equivalent across the U.K. (I'm sure there are these stats too somewhere).

They would similarly need to work out what constitutes the same in terms of UCAS points in the IB and calibrate accordingly.

At least for Scottish qualifications and the IB there are agreed standards of comparison in the form of UCAS points). It must be much more complicated trying to compare international qualifications.

Its just not what you'd expect, is it? I am sure like us you can look back and laugh about the day.

We love Lancaster, it was our favourite campus University but ultimately DD decided she wanted to be in a city. I must admit I was a bit disappointed, but support her decision. We loved the open day, and the feel of the campus. It was the subject talks which made DD switch from PPE to Economics being more of the focus of any degree.

My children didn't go to open days.

Onthe SE issue it is interesting. My view is the NE where I am from used to do better (perhaps in the days when my parents went to grammar schools there - Newcastle abolished grammar schools around 1970 and went fully comp and perhaps also because it used to be more prosperous. My grandfather's parents and siblings moved up there because the coal fields were booming and then 2 of his children went to Durham etc).

Also people move away - my siblings and I moved away from Newcastle. I live in London now - it is that kind of drain away of people seeking the better paid jobs which has perhaps led to the concentratino of people in London.

Interests stats a page or two up for Durham however showing for law degrees about the % at sixth form level of people in fee paying schools at about 20% so obviously for law they are representative of the population (although 50% of lawyers do not do law as their first degere so it is quite a complicated subject to assess in terms of who came from which schools but with loads of data as law firms have an obligation every year to gather data about schools attended).

The other issue is do we think unversity entrances SHOULD represent the percentages of the population who are particular things. is it wrong that more women than men now go? Should we be rejecting women and allowing more men in? What is more BAME people than in the population go - should we be excluding people to remove that issue? etc etc It is very hard to be fair. if girls work harder than boys then let them get the places in my view which seems to be the view of the state.

Thanks for the explanation.

I still disagree with how points are given- e.g. I think points awarded for A1 at H is too low in comparison. People think A levels are the best all and end all, and they're just not.

The most underachieving demographic in the UK is white working class boys from seaside towns. Yet my cousin’s big employer has recently set targets to employ 40% BAME staff - way above the proportion of the population they represent.

The reason why the most underachieving demographic group in the UK is white working class boys it is because there are, simply, a much higher number of white working class boys than BAME.

I agree, however, than aiming to hire 40% BAME is not very equalitarian though, as the proportion of BAME individuals who are available and have the skills to do those jobs may be much smaller than 40% UNLESS the jobs are based in an area whose population diversity reflects those percentages.

@Xenia The ethnic populations you mention are still under represented at elite universities and certainly within STEM both as students and academics. They still face greater challenges gaining employment once they graduate.

@Shelefttheweb Is the employer trying to address chronic under representation by any chance? The Metropolitan Police have been given a similar target which would be appropriate in London which is 40% (BAME - Terrible term) and marred by institutional racism.

White working class boys are under performing because of poverty, you can thank successive governments for this, not the ethnic communities. They are not being held back by the colour of their skin like people from ethnic communities. Communities within which there are marked differences in outcomes, with black children especially boys generally faring the worst.

Socrates is 100% correct in everything she says.

I believe white working class boys are the only group who do not on average outearn their peers by attending university where minority ethnic groups do.