Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

@QuintanaRoo Be interested to see what you conclude.

Well ChatGPT has produced the weakest PS I’ve seen in a long time. Certainly no passion there and to be honest from the stuff mentioned it reads like it’s AI generated so good to see that my years of experience would immediately make think something doesn’t seem right. Would not have got an interview.

Personal statements are changing in2024 of course!

I’ve asked it for two other PSs, so two new ones. They are all different but none would get an interview. There’s also a definite “format” to it even though they’re different. So I would definitely start recognising them.

When I was at Durham, which was admittedly some time ago, you could take 2/6 modules in a subject outside of your own. So people who got into (then) slightly easier to get in subjects like education would take two modules in history/English etc. Work really hard on those two modules, get a high first in end of first year exams. Then with that evidence request to swap to the harder to get in subject for second and third year, and that would be their degree. This was over ten years ago though so not sure if still possible.

If this is really really what she wants to do, would a year out, then applying again next year be a possibility? Then she'll actually have her grades, and she might to better than predicted, so would then have more chance of securing a place.

I think the changes means it will just be six mini personal statements structured on specific questions which to be honest a lot of personal statements already cover.

So applicants will still have an opportunity to demonstrate passion/knowledge, etc and I guess also an opportunity to use AI.

I think what it will mean is less well counselled and coached students will be able to do a better job and it will also help students know what they need to be doing in year 12 to ready themselves. It's a good change, I hope. can't come soon enough.

Agree.

It is easier to swap between courses once you are in.

Isn't always allowed, but most times IME it is.

I'm amazed by the number of people saying "just swap courses". I have spent my whole career in higher education (including a stint at Durham). You cannot simply "swap courses". I'm not saying it cant happen, but it is not common.

It may be that Durham has a common 1st year course for arts / humanities students. Science certainly used to work like that.

If this is the case, then an archeology student may be able to chose 1st year modules that would qualify them to go on to do history or archeology in their second year if, and only if, they pass their first year exams. If you look at the overall degree structure you should be able to see if this is possible. I suspect that most people who change courses do it this way.

You cannot just rock up as an archeology student and expect to be able to change courses. It is very unlikely to happen.

I used to advise college students applying for degree courses. I can only say what I said to them.
Apply for where you most want to go, even if your chance seems slim, you never know, you may be lucky, but don't set your heart only on that place only. Many a student has found they were very happy and did well in a place they had originally put lower down their list.
If you don't get in somewhere, then the most likely thing is that the admissions tutors don't think you will fit in with their course/college for whatever reason. They are not rejecting you personally. And if they are right, and they may very well be as they know more about the course than you do, then they are doing you a favour by warning you off it. You're almost always going to be best off somewhere where they think you will fit in, and where they actively want you on the course.
When I applied many years ago, I was rejcted by two- a right dump I won;t name but which I had only put on my form because I was told I needed to fill it up, and a good place that I realised afterwards when I knew more about the place would not have suited me at all- they'd have seen my work ( we had to submit work for my subject) and known straight away I'd hate it there and they'd be able to do nothing much for me. But got in to the one I put at the top, the hardest to get into of the lot, but which was just right for me. All the admission tutors were right, both those who rejected me and those who accepted me.
I don't recommend anyone to put pressure on admissions tutors. It's unlikely to work, and if it does, it may well backfire. They generally do their best to be fair and take those students they think will benefit most from their courses.

Your understanding about interviews is wrong.
Only Oxford, Cambridge and regulated courses like nursing, teaching, pharmacy, routinely interview, plus a small number of other courses at a small number of instutitutions.

I think it depends on the subject. Attended 2 open day sessions in the Business School at Durham last summer - one really pushed the PS, the other said they didn't look at them.

Personal statements are not changing until any earlier than for applications to courses starting in 2026.

It's well worth checking to make sure there hasn't been an administrative error.

If it turns out not to be an error, would your DD consider taking a gap year and getting her ducks in a row (SAT or ACT and financial aid application, plus investigation of universities) in order to apply for a spot in an American university or liberal arts college? Her grades are excellent, and there is a select number of top institutions where she could receive great financial aid as an international student.

Unfortunately, it's fiercely competitive and there are many, many applicants with top grades, including this year's baby boom class, gap year takers and those who deferred from last year's baby boom class, and others who delayed going for a variety of reasons. Universities can pick and choose amongst many with top grades for the mix they want, so some are just going to lose out.

It sucks. I have a Year 13 who wants to go to a top programme next year, so he has to 'hit' on his A Levels to meet his conditional acceptances.

Unless they have changed it , it's for 2025 entry.

The proportion of applicants applying for deferred entry or post results has declined slightly this year compared to last, and is noticeably less that it was 10-12 years ago.

Agreed. It's very unfair, too. Where I studied, my department was forced by the college to accept someone who tried that trick. The students on the course in question were cross because many of them knew people who had been rejected who had far more ability than the cuckoo, who openly admitted in front of staff she only changed courses because she thought she'd have to do less work -which was not only untrue, it made her even more unpopular with both students and staff. As it happened, she was also idle, and wasn't remotely up to the work, and dropped out, having wasted a lot of people's time, and a place on her previous course, also over-subscribed, so some other person lost out. I have never known a forced transfer in college to work out well when I was teaching, either. A genuine change of heart when you try a subject, fair enough, but deliberately taking a place from someone who really wants to study a subject so you can hijack a place on a more highly subscribed course is just selfish, and plain deceitful.

But they're still 'baby boom' year groups, so it's a lot of applicants vying for these spots.

Based on what? The personal statement? Really? Because at 43 points, that's hard to beat by volume of students.

Well yes - it does often come down to the personal statement. If one student has spent years involving themselves in supra-curricular activities related to their intended degree, or have won national essay competitions etc, they will be the ones that stand out. Gradea are great, but in the school I teach in, most of the kids have straight A* at A Level and straight 8s and 9s at GCSE so there isn't much to distinguish one from another. Some get the places they want, some don't.

I got rejected by Durham years ago. I was the top student in my comprehensive, straight A at GCSE, predicted 5 As at A Level (the days before A existed), and even had 100% in my AS modular exams and coursework... but it wasn't enough. Now, working in education, I finally get how competitive it is. Oh, and my mum reacted exactly like you- she was really surprised and confused. She didn't realise how competitive it is, or that even though I might be special in my own school, across the country I'm just one very bright girl out of literally thousands.

UCAS started a consultation a few months ago on possible changes to personal statements, that was considering whether to introduce changes for 2025 or 2026 entry. Their website now states that changes to personal statements will be no earlier than 2026 entry. Probably UCAS have been burnt by the Cambridge induced reference fiasco.

They should have been A star, not A, in the message above (the * has done something off with formatting!)

Oh, I just looked jgw and I couldn't find that.

Dammit. I can't wait for them to change. They are such a bloody chore.

Usd to be that all art and design courses interviewed anyone they thought they might offer a place to- with a portfolio of work, too. Some stopped doing it. I wouldn't recommend any student to go to a place that handed out places in art and design without a portfolio and interview. It still shocks me that other subjects offer without interviews.