Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

Before you" move on" I'd suggest (as has been suggested several times!) that your daughter rings and checks with Durham. Stupid to miss out because of an admin error..

If heart set on Durham, take any course offered and swap after first year (if still wants to). Or ... you can phone admissions and try to negotiate (worth try, I used to work in academia and know a thing or two. I did it for my own DS, btw). Or take a year out, add something to either CV or list of qualifications, and apply again next year. OR ... go somewhere else, do desired course.

Accept the archaeology offer and then transfer after a term. It happens all the time.

@albertandlilylight , whilst 43 is a great prediction the uni will regard it in the same light as 3 x A star predictions because this the maximum a dc could achieve at many schools in the U.K.. My dc's top private day school offers a maximum of 3 A levels apart from Further Maths being the only 4th option available and they don't offer epq's. Your dc's application will have been judged in the same way as a top gcse / 3 x A star application of which there are many for History at Durham.

Exactly this.

I applied for history at Durham back in 2007 and was rejected. Took a gap year and reapplied with known grades and was accepted. Obviously that may not work for your DC but is an option worth exploring.

You are coming at this that somehow that IB grade profile beats out other candidates. It doesn't. The vast majority of students, even those taking medicine have 3 A levels. My two have 4 as they sat further maths. For someone coming from a super selective indie school who have had a very privileged education they are up against students who have excelled in poor performing schools, who have had to find resources outside of school to teach themselves the curriculum. They have worked harder, with less, to get to where they are with the same grades. There is even a club at Durham called the 93% club which is for the state school students.

Competition at top unis always means that some applicants are turned down, even those with amazing grade profiles. My son is at Durham, the entry grade for his course is A star AA, but he has 4 A stars. The number of students they take for his STEM course with their entry grades is very low, most have 3 or 4 A stars, so although it would seem like a walk in the park for someone on a high grade profile it isn't. It isn't just about grades. Personal statements, supercurriculars and demonstrating a love of your subject is equally important.

Your DD will have a choice, accept somewhere else, take a gap year and reapply to Durham, take the archaeology course, stick with that or try to transfer. It is completely shit and as parents lots of us have gone through the trials of uni applications.

Why are people still suggesting that the OP's daughter start the course offered and transfer after a term/year as if it is just an administrative matter? It may sometimes be possible to transfer from some courses at some universities but it is by no means guaranteed.

Klute is still there? Wow.
OP: similar thing happened to me - applied to Oxbridge, was offered a different college (single sex) which really didn't appeal to me. I was devastated, honestly - first time in my life that I'd 'failed' academically. I went to Durham (and Klute), as I decided getting out of the single sex environment was more important to me than the uni.
It was really, really hard at the time, so I completely get what your DC is going through. But in the end, it worked out. I get your disappointment and do follow up on the suggestions made, but also help your DC pick herself up and move on, as she will grow from this in the long run.

Please don't round on me , Durham fans, but I just wanted to chip in and add that I know quite a few university drop outs (students I have taught , DS's friends, a family friend, and then a friend of mine from way back when) and whilst there have been others the majority of dropouts I know have dropped out of Durham history...

May be a blessing in disguise? It's a spin on it anyway!

I am afraid 3 or 4 A*s is standard fare for applicants from competitive (mostly private but also some grammar) schools. Personal statements and references do little to separate candidates. It comes down to extracurriculars and interview.

There is loads of aspirational behaviour going on at the moment and teachers are predicting higher grades than pupils often get. She can go through clearing and consider non Russell group unis which often have a much better student experience.

I don't think that necessarily makes sense. Many courses don't interview so there is no chance to shine there and if you think that personal statements don't separate candidates, where else are they going to talk about extracurriculars? There is no other opportunity to mention them?

I reject around 500 applicants every year for a competitive university course. Every single person I reject has excellent exam results, normally in excess course requirements.

I reject on personal statement. I need to see some passion and a fairly deep understanding of the subject/career being applied for. Every year I get emails from upset/angry rejected applicants, some are extremely angry and when I tell them that as far as I’m concerned their PS did not demonstrate passion for the subject they will disagree with me saying that it did. I’m sure they thought it did, but what they have said isn’t what I’m looking for. They get particularly cross if their PS was “good enough “ for offers elsewhere and don’t seem to understand that universities will place emphasis on different things.

did your dc go to the open day and talk to the lecturers about what they were looking for?

Personally the I wouldn't touch the scene at Durham with a bargepole. In the 90s it was all pashminas and chinos 🤮. I don't know what it's like now but pretty lacking in diversity I expect.

Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this.

It’s ok for you and your child to be disappointed, but it’s going to be first choice for a lot of students because it has a good reputation. Not everyone is going to make the cut.

As for transparency, what does the website say about the offers process? If lots of students have very similar predictions then they will have to go on personal statements to separate candidates. Or maybe they look for students who have demonstrated a love of their subject through extracurricular activities.

It really doesn’t. You might get lucky if someone drops out the history course but there needs to be a space. Not talking for Durham specifically here but that’s the case at every university I’ve been a lecturer at.

The government has caused this by not putting number caps on. Russell groups are hovering students from every angle and all other universities are suffering.

My dd has an offer from Durham (neither History or archaeology). When we went to the open day in September the department stressed how important the PS was and how they read and consider each one (and they also gave advice on what they were looking for in the PS). When we attended the offer holders day they also reiterated the importance of the PS.

I also think the “hard work equals rewards” message from the school is wrong. Because it isn’t always true. Harsh lesson to learn so early but it’s something which is likely to happen again with job applications and promotions etc. it doesn’t matter how hard you work sometimes, you are competing against other equally hard working individuals and sometimes you will be disappointed.

I mentioned unthread but when my dc received an alternative offer (from Bristol) a couple of years back it came with the stipulation that there would be no transferring onto the course they originally applied for. Alternative offers essentially are a rejection from the original course with the opportunity to apply for / accept an alternative.

Playing God and looking for passion? How do you feel about personal statements that will soon be written by AI? 😂

I guess I’m talking about the quality of the personal statement and the specific nature of the extracurriculars - relative to the applicants background and resources.
My understanding was that most Russell Group Unis interview for their highly competitive courses, especially post-Covid using Teams and Zoom technology.
Interestingly, I have come across undergrads with five A stars at A Level (a specialist international college where four of the subjects were compulsory and one was personal choice). It’s pretty competitive out there.

I wouldn’t say I’m “playing god” but if I only have 20 spaces I have to whittle the majority of applicants down somehow. 🤷‍♀️. What I’m doing at the minute certainly seems to work. God knows about ChatGPT. I’m off to ask it for a PS now and see if it spits out an interview offer worthy one.

Could not agree more. DS got 4 A stars at A levels and did not get his first or even second choice uni for a very competitive course. He got his third choice and was lucky to get it. A lot of kids work very hard these days, plus deferred applications from the Covid years.