Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

The Scottish Government limits the number of student places as well as the amount they are prepared to pay for them.

Well, obviously. And universities can’t afford to push for more students paying the reduced rate or they won’t cover their costs.

So if Scottish applicants to Scottish universities are to be considered purely on their merits against eg English students, either the Scottish government has to pay MUCH more money or the cost has to be apportioned between the government and students.

Otherwise, the result of the Scottish policy is that fewer Scottish students attend Scottish universities than would otherwise be the case, and they are not considered equally to eg English students of similar calibre.

And they may be a brain drain to England where high calibre non contextual Scottish students seek to apply to English institutions only to increase their chances of an offer and remain in England after graduation.

That is definitely happening. If you consider the length of degrees (4 years in Scotland vs 3 years in England) the fact you start earning a year earlier effectively wipes out the additional cost of paying fees in England

I think there are two opposing forces on Scottish students, and the balance between the two will depend on student, university and subject.

On the one hand, the introduction of free places for Scottish students has shifted the assumptions - if a good course exists in Scotland, many families will look at that initially at least the fees will weigh heavily in the balance rather than all UK universities being considered equally.

On the other hand, limited access to free places on very popular courses may push some students towards English universities who would, given a wholly open choice on a level playing field, have preferred a Scottish one.

St.Andrews and University of Edinburgh are not the only universities in Scotland. However their mix in terms of undergraduate domicile is very different to other unis in Scotland. So perhaps a wide lenses is needed within which to frame this aspect of discussion.

More to the point why students ( or their parents) feel the need to stay with the same cohort? So many posters point out that other unis have better courses for particular subjects but still the relentless push towards the same few unis goes on.

Not just private either. Its pointless asking my sons year group where they want to go. It’s all the same Exeter, Bristol, Bath with Newcastle or Birmingham as insurance. I guess the private schools are doing the same with Durham/ St Andrews/ UCL. No wonder numbers are tight.
I’m sure it wasn’t always like this. What’s happened to Sussex, UEA or Liverpool which were popular back in the day.

I'm not sure why D C would feel Bristol is too elitist when they have a 40% WP target. They still have a relatively high private school % at around 27% but Newcastle has 23% so not that very different.

I’m sure it wasn’t always like this

I think it was!

Perhaps not since the various unis were founded but since the 80s or so at least.

@FlorentinePaper That's a bit of a top level rate. If you start digging into it, in individual departments the bias is there.

So for the my son applied for Bristol Aero last year,and got no offer despite 4A* predictions, there is an overall 30% offer rate. But when you break it down by school, private schools have a 44% offer rate and state schools have a 28% offer rate which doesn't look to bad.

But of course, then most of the contextual offers come out of the state school pot. So if you take them out of the equation, the offer rate was for private school students was 41% and the offer rate for non contextuals from state schools was 18%. That's a huge difference.

There may be other explanations for this other than bias: maybe private schools are more savvy at giving pupils a realistic view of their chances at elite courses like this one.

Bristol certainly used to have the highest proportion of private school entrance. I don't know if that's still the case.

My nephew (private school kid)has ten A stars at GCSE and three A star predictions for A Levels. Offers for History this year from Cambridge, Bristol and York. Rejected by St Andrews last week. Sometimes there is no obvious logic.

DS also has the same and also rejected for History from St Andrews.

St Andrews is just very small and they get to a point, I think, where they stop processing applications and just reject people they haven't got round to.

Ha. They must be inundated with amazing applicants to be so cavalier! What a nice position for them to be in!

That's the best suggested I've seen. As long as it's properly assessed, not a postcode lottery like SIMD is, or like the old grant system where parents with businesses who employed a creative accountant and their wealthy children got full grants! I saw it, it was horrendous.

I don't know why, really, because it's not all that. Lovely, wee place, but the course wasn't pull enough for DS. He chose Glasgow, much higher on the league table for his course (and higher than Edinburgh).

DNephew is there and likes it, but finds it incredibly expensive (probably because there's lots of VERY wealthy international students who can afford things without thinking) and does say that there's hardly a Scottish voice, nevermind a working class one (which he is).

if you really do need a high grade to get onto a course due its difficulty - not in terms of the rationing of places but in terms of the skills needed I think a lower contextual offer is wrong as its setting those students up for a fail

You misunderstand the point of contextual offers - it's not about giving the poor thickos a chance, it's about finding the best people. Universities recognise that A levels are a very blunt instrument because a child's circumstances have such a huge effect. Some people with lower grades are in fact brighter than some students with better grades. These are the people the universities are after - the brightest, from all types of school - and this is the reason there's no need to worry about them not managing the course.

Sadly it doesn't matter how often this is explained. Some people refuse to believe widening participate is any thing other than unfair.

Its not hard to access offer %'s for popular courses, some are already available, FOI is available for the info that is not. Many people will consider applicants 4 & 5 A Star Predicated with impressive extra and super curricular activities and a strong personal statement 'special'. A quick look at the Student Room and Reddit will show that many applicants achieve this criteria for popular courses. If everyone is this 'special' is anyone special? You do your children no favours if you blame undeserving poor kids who will clearly be out of their depth or other conspiracy theories. Encouraging the belief that no other applicant could be as strong as your DC is doing them no favours. Resilience and critical thinking are much better skills for them to learn!

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When inequality has been the norm for so long, any small move towards a fairer system is deemed discriminatory. It is not. It is purely redressing the balance. There is no question of whether WP is appropriate. The best students should get the places.

The only caveat is that WP tools need to be effective for the majority of cases. If not then there is a risk of the wrong ones getting through and that does no favours to anyone.

I have never been against letting the child with ABB from a school where just about everyone gets Cs get a place which is traditionally what loads of universities have done even back in the 1980s. Fair enough. It is the rather too blunt instrument of some schemes like Bristol's long running arrangement does that can end up a bit unfair. However on the whole I think our system works fine. I don't see vast numbers of the brightest not getting place. None of my children nor I ( all of us from fee paying schools) tried Oxbridge and 3 of my children who went there loved Bristol etc.

Still between 25-30%

I suspect Durhan takes that prize....it certainly used to!