Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

A PP mentioned Durham's excuse for admitting a disproportionately high % of privately educated students is that they concentrate on trying to attract students from areas with low levels of participation in HE. Turns out they are also shit at that.

The problem with the "hardly surprising since the brightest children go to private school" argument is that it's simply not true. ~75% of the brightest 18 yr olds come from state school (measured by A level grades) and yet Durham's state school intake is about 60%. They are missing out on some of the brightest young people and don't seem that bothered tbh.

One of Durham's other things it hasn't done is outreach in its own area. Only 7% of its students come from the NE and , sadly, that has sometimes led to this...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/19/students-from-northern-england-facing-toxic-attitude-at-durham-university

The other is the reality of a situation like Durham with its 40% private schooo intake. It would be interesting to see the % of grammar vs comps broken down in the state school figures

@KittyMcKitty here you go. Unis with the highest combination of Indie & Grammar pupils.

with that lot followed by

Sociology exactly as expected 😊 also a very interesting discussion on this very subject at offer holders day!

This bit sticks out form the report I just linked. Sounds rather familiar

I was told that I was a waste of a worthy student’s place. I received this from students and staff alike.”

And to RG-ify it

From the ST data - the previous posted a few minutes later reflect the current latest HESA stats

Indeed not a lot of progress at Durham. These go back to 2015/16 so trajectory can be seen.

Some going in the "wrong" direction - Exeter, Edinburgh

Others such as Bristol have made significant progress, at face value at least.

As ever education journalists give the impression of never having experienced any formal education. Privately educated numbers are heavily skewed - the median is less than 5%.

Some of those perhaps with work to do

as compared with others

Edinburgh may be affected by the unusually large % of students attending private schools there, who may now be staying in Scottish universities due to the fees difference compared with going to university in Engkand.

@cantkeepawayforever the percentage of privately educated DC in Scotland is low and I would think those DC would struggle to get a place at Edinburgh on many courses given some of the WP stats for home students e.g. law last year. The private school element is much more likely to be fee paying English students. Edinburgh has always been seen as one of the more acceptable universities for privately educated English DC who don't get Oxbridge or who are inherently next tier down.

This is completely disgusting. I am shocked.

DS's girlfriend's BF is there presently (first year). They both come from Newcastle, state school, and she has indeed come across prejudice as she's working class. She likes her course and has some nice friends, apparently, but it's not altogether been an easy experience it seems. DS's girlfriend was down visiting recently and found it very 'cliquey' (her words) compared to where she is in Glasgow.

I honestly think DS would not have gelled at Oxford- if his experience would have been anything like this advert- it was definitely for the best that he didn't get in.

Article, not advert

@Puffalicious I now live (and teach) in the NE and Durham does have a certain negative reputation. I know parents of kids who have gone to Oxbridge from Newcastle (both private and state) and who have encountered far less snobbery.

Ancient history and anecdotal, but when I was at Oxford I can't recall any of my friends ever asking about my school or family background (and I certainly didn't ask about theirs!)

I honestly think DS would not have gelled at Oxford- if his experience would have been anything like this advert- it was definitely for the best that he didn't get in.

There don't seem to be the same kind of issues at Oxford though - their % intake of state school students is better than Durham's and they have done a lot of work which has improved those numbers over the last few years. Durham does seem to have a particular problem.

DD is eyeing up an attempt at Oxford for 2024 which is fine by me, I would be nervous about Durham though. (Partly due to some of these stats / reports, partly due to family experiences there.)

Are there particular colleges at Durham that are traditionally chosen by the private school pupils? And ones that are more working class / mixed?

Yes there is one large college in a popular location which is very much viewed as epitomising the problem. However that is of course a stereotype but after much digging one founded in perhaps some truth.

Steewotyoes are of course massively harmful and add to further putting people off from applying.

But just to stress my dd is desperate to go there and it’s a Uni with many many strengths and qualities it just needs to properly address this situation.

Actually that’s probably unfair of me to say that. I was just struck at the offer holders day when we were told there that there formals were “so cheap” and only £15 each.

I agree in regard to Oxford as DD is there as a WC lass with a NE accent- she’s delighted that her friends are now using the ‘short vowel’ rather than the ‘long one’ for certain words! 🤣
She didn’t apply to Durham despite it being ranked much higher out of other potential choices only because she wanted a ‘moving away experience’ for university.
Her decision was certainly not from the perspective of a working class lass from a former mining village that felt she wouldn’t fit in - I went there myself as a (very) mature student…

Private school pupils will be at all colleges in Durham.

But, like everything, there's a sliding scale of private schools.

Colleges along The Bailey (old town near the Cathedral) are more likely to attract pupils from the well known Public schools (Winchester, Westminster, Radley etc) with Castle and Hatfield leading the way.

Hill colleges (newer ones on the outskirts) will have less Public school pupils but will still have high numbers of pupils from independent schools.

It's really not an issue when you're at Durham - you mix with people you get on with and, for most people, some of those may have gone to private school and some will not have.

It may depend on who you come across. Dd (state school) has just finished at Durham and I asked her what sort of proportion of her friends were from private school.
Now she's the sort of person that picks up that sort of information from small clues and remembers, it so I was a bit surprised when she said she hadn't got a clue whether anyone, even her flatmates, were private or state. It had never come up in conversation at all.
She said the only person she knew was... someone who'd gone from the same school as her 😂

@MargaretThursday Mind you, I never moved in Bullingdon-Club-style circles! Yes, only anecdotes, happy to admit that.

@PhotoDad 🤣🤣🤣

I was thinking that perhaps for people who feel it's important to know may tend to discuss it more.

There may also be some assuming going on. I mean, I know generally Eton/Harrow types were easy enough to spot, so if I'd met someone with that accent and hair style I'd probably have assumed they were without asking.

@MargaretThursday I'm reminded of another current thread where posters were divided on whether "most" university students drink/smoke/spend a lot. Opinions turned out to be based entirely on our DCs, and the birds of a feather they flock with. Hurray for anecdata!