Uni threat to terminate student's studies

[Allshallbewell2021]

My ds has just succeeded in his appeal against a termination of studies based on non attendance. He had no idea that lectures were mandatory. His attendance is lower than the bar they expect but the dept dealing with him have not been explicit about either of these figures.
His work is up to date.
He did not know lectures were mandatory -lecturers said they were 'important'.
He has had a large number of challenges which have effected his attendance.
I can't the brutality of the process. The stasi like language.
The lack of seeing young people (particularly the Covid uni cohort) as uniquely unlucky in uni terms.
The lack of support for someone struggling
The treatment of a student in a way which seems like they've committed real crimes not just misunderstood the rules.
When did the unis become such vicious places? I was so naive. I am horrified by their attitude. It seems like how you'd treat someone guilty of a serious crime.

What course is he doing.

If it leads to a professional qualification you have to have attended a % of lectures / face to face contacts to meet requirement of qualifications. I did a health care course and this was mentioned at the start to us, so maybe this is the case and just missed the that bit?

I suspect the letter giving the appeal result to your son was written in fairly tough terms to make it clear to him that essentially it was his last chance. For some students, winning the appeal would be taken by them as a signal that they'd got away with it and would continue to get away with it, so the university wants to make it clear that that is not the case.

I pay for DDs university and I have the expectation that she attends lectures.
At Christmas the lecturers arranged a treat and 10 students out of 60 turned up - part of their studies require debate and so few turn up that it’s not possible to gauge a broad range of opinions.

She attends lectures. As a parent I would be disappointed if she didn’t engage with her lecturers and her studies.

Id be surprised if a few aren’t kick off the course next year.

Dd uni was hybrid for 2021-2022 - some in person, some delivered online only. Lectures were still recorded, even if in person available. Some courses have been largely in person throughout (mainly STEM, Medicine and Vet Science) She is currently abroad and they don't record lectures so you have to attend.

I would really want him to show me what emails or calls he had received and how he replied. To ascertain who was culpable.

I am relieved my kids just missed out on covid at university. I have friends whose kids started during the pandemic and the students were just forgotten about. Living away from home, isolated with the universities ignoring their welfare. It was just awful for many.

I think many universities should up their pastoral care. At many institutions they just pay lip service to mental health and welfare and in practice do not seem to care very much.

Of course students have a responsibility to attend. But a student who is persistently missing lectures should be assumed to be struggling before taking drastic measures.

Only the boy here really knows what went on.

Increasingly, the attitude of 'I've paid so it's up to me if I turn up' is making session planning really difficult. I feel for the committed students who want discussion.

I also have issues with students turning up when they feel like it. One session, I started a group activity and every 5 mins for the first half an hour another student would walk in. Absolutely infuriating. They don't apologise or even see why they should.

Students feel that they are peers and that if they don't like the idea of an activity they openly challenge why we're doing it and can they go at x time because they'd rather work from home etc.

It wastes so much time. I'm not saying everything I do is perfect, but nobody can teach effectively in these conditions. It's grinding me down just now.

It's something in the last two years or so. It's never been quite as tricky as this.

Oh and one informed me he was going to miss two sessions to go on holiday. I thanked him for letting me know but reminded him that actually he was making a request for absence as attendance is mandatory and he started quoting policy at me.... But cherry picking some phrases and missing the one that actually stated mandatory attendance. He was really put out that I even reminded him of rules.

I have no idea how they'll cope with a 'boss'

Of course students have a responsibility to attend. But a student who is persistently missing lectures should be assumed to be struggling before taking drastic measures.

IME that's exactly what happens. It's a gentle reminder email, followed by a check in, followed by a "no really, tell us what's going on", all the time with signposting to support services. The vast majority just need a boot up the bum but because we're all terrified of making things worse for the small proportion who are in a bad way, that's not what happens.

The students who are ill and struggling and tell us that and provide evidence when they're too unwell to sit an exam (or whatever) get chance after chance and usually get there in the end.

Universities should have a robust complaints procedure. Someone (him) should create a timeline of the contact he has had from them and all paperwork. Be thorough.

All these posts have been very helpful.
Absolutely it is the student's responsibility and we can't spoon feed them nor should we.
I was simply shocked that things were so serious and maybe reacted defensively; but also I was surprised that after termination they can not return - it's very final. But So be it - it's the perogative of the uni - I honestly was naive - I admit that. I come from a time when uni lectures were far more optional. Great lecturer's lectures were packed poorer lecturer's lectures were more tumbleweed. But I hear what you all say. The devil is in the detail and I don't have all the facts.
I think some people struggle to admit they're struggling and fail to access support. I'm not defending that but there is a presumption that providing the support is all the all of it. It may well be - but how many uni students kill themselves who haven't accessed support? I just know that mental health problems are complex and not everyone who needs help is able to ask for it. I can't argue with what everyone says but there can be a world of difference between one person's struggle and another's. Also some people have been put off accessing support because they have experienced feeling judged and patronized. I am ferocious in protecting my young adult for sure and hard on him where required too. I think being young is hard and I have one who has always struggled and I'm so proud of their not giving up. I don't blame the uni I just want the best for him is all.

Have you been to any of these lectures?

I think you're very much taking the things your son has said as the absolute truth- and still looking for someone to put the blame on. I get that your son may have had various issues that need support, but as I said in my previous post, are you prepared to support him financially next year? Because if not, then this really is his chance to figure things out.

There will be aspects of his work that he finds boring or pointless- he will still have to attend these. I'm not saying that's the point of uni, but maybe presenting it to him that way may help?

But equally...

I teach at secondary level, including an A-level science. It has mandatory practical work which must be completed. We run three classes of this A-level, so if they miss the work with me, they may be able to attend with another class. If they can't do this, then we ask them to attend a catch up session- it's at a time when labs and teachers are free, but sometimes clashes with sports matches etc. There's often requests to catch up at another time but the facilities aren't available at other times!

We then offer one final chance to catch up in the Easter holidays before they sit their A-level exams (this means staff giving up a day of their holidays but anyway).

Last year a colleague had a student who didn't attend, and was repeatedly told he couldn't get the practical endorsement if he didn't catch up at least some practical work (rules were relaxed due to covid, but only to a point). The student didn't catch up the work, and despite repeated communications with the student and parents, it was the colleague who was blamed when the uni rejected him.

Genuine question- at what point is it acceptable to say that young people must take some responsibility for themselves?

OP you keep talking like universities don't take pastoral support seriously. They absolutely do and attendance monitoring is part of that.

Stop blaming the university for being heavy handed . They're just enforcing the regulations which your son signed up to when he enrolled.

OP that's exactly why those of us who work in universities find it completely implausible that there wasn't a very long series of emails, warnings and contacts from tutors before he was asked to leave. We are fully aware that students can find it difficult to engage with support, but at the end of the day when multiple attempts are made what can we do? At some point we have to escalate to the next stage because we have no evidence to say whether a student is struggling or not. It's likely why your son's appeal was successful - because he finally provided the evidence the university needed to help him.

It doesn't matter now how he got to where he is - he's been allowed back so he needs to focus on his studies, and as I said before, consider whether he's well enough to study right now.

Termination of studies is very final because it is the ultimate last resort, when all other attempts to support the student have failed. However, there are appeal processes before you get to this stage that are designed to catch students like your son and give them another chance. That's exactly what has happened here, so arguably, the processes are working as they should.

You are, of course, absolutely right that some students who are struggling don't ask for help. This is a real problem. However, what are universities actually supposed to do if the student repeatedly fails to engage with attempts to contact them? They simply don't have the resource to go banging on the doors of students who never respond in the hope that they will find a time when the student is at home and willing to open the door and engage with them. It isn't a boarding school - these are young adults, so while the university does absolutely a duty of care, they are not in a parental role and can't be totally responsible for students' wellbeing. Some of that sits with the students themselves.

I appreciate that it must have been a shock to realise that things had got so serious, and tbh, your reaction as a parent is not unusual. From my previous experience of working at a university, I'm well aware that students who have ignored warnings about attendance or engagement are often somewhat selective in what they choose to share with their parents. So from the parents' perspective, it seems like it has come completely out of the blue, whereas from the university's perspective, it has been building slowly for a very long time.

Sometimes, because of poor mental health or overwhelm or whatever, students ignore numerous soft "early warnings" and a harsh sounding letter threatening termination really is the only thing that makes them wake up to the reality of the situation that they're in. They actually need that tough kick up the backside to help them realise that they need to take action. If they do take action at this point, there is usually an appeals process that will give them another chance, and through that process, the university (and quite often parents) will be made aware that the student needs more support, so this kind of thing can be a catalyst to getting help that the earlier softer communications don't quite manage to achieve. Tough love, if you like.

Maybe try to change your perspective on the matter if you can, and see that actually, this whole process might have been a blessing in disguise for your son. Hopefully, he will now access the support that he needs. Best of luck to him.

Sometimes the heavy handed official emails are needed. Usually there will have been the gentle and supportive tutor based ones, usually multiple times before.

OP as harsh as letter was it has done it's job.
I sub contract for many uni's and have been though this process with many students, what he needs to ask for is more support, mentor, study skills etc so that he can get his diary and dates sorted.

@Allshallbewell2021 I have every sympathy with your DC. A friend's DC was treated with equal finality and they had to actually leave - remove all their stuff from halls in second year and were given a two week period to prepare an appeal. The student's 'mistake' was not to declare their ill health in advance of narrowly failing an exam and therefore the illness wasn't considered material evidence for the Uni's decision making. They were fortunate that a parent was a lawyer and took two weeks off work to work up the case. They succeeded - had to redo the year and ended up two years later with a 1st!

Of course young people do make mistakes and ignore warnings - my DC frequently does - I am not though sure what the advantage to a university is of requiring someone to leave who is submitting all their work. I certainly didn't attend all lectures, though they explicitly were no compulsory.

That’s assuming he has kept the paperwork, not deleted any of their emails, etc.
They will have a log though. By the time a student gets to this stage there will be a file several inches thick which comes out at the start of the meeting the parent comes into all guns blazing because their child says he has been chucked out with no warning.

Yes exactly! The universities have done this before and it's highly likely that they will have covered their backs!

A meeting with academic staff has gone really well and ds is hugely relieved and encouraged and happy to be working towards graduation.
I'm so relieved and hope that others in his position are able to advocate for themselves successfully with their institution.
The staff apparently described what JenniferBarclay outlined-that they are dealing with the consequences of a large number of disengaged students particularly the 'first year in lockdown' cohort.
I really appreciated this thread - it's been a re-education

It's great that he's had a positive meeting, OP. Well done him!

Thanks MrsBnerves! It's been a rugged return to mumsnet, I've been away for many years and I didn't realize what a rollercoaster it would be - but fair enough - I did post in a hurry and should have been more balanced/nuanced. I actually appreciate getting a bit of a face slapping. I had forgotten what it was like but I don't object - I think you have to take what free speech comes back at you.

All credit to you for taking it with such good grace! This place is brutally honest at times, but the majority of posters mean well.

I really hope that your ds now gets the support that he needs.

Thank you, that is really kind of you to say. I hope he makes the most of this chance.

Good luck to your DS in his studies @Allshallbewell2021

Thank you Rampantivy 🙏