Uni threat to terminate student's studies

[Allshallbewell2021]

My ds has just succeeded in his appeal against a termination of studies based on non attendance. He had no idea that lectures were mandatory. His attendance is lower than the bar they expect but the dept dealing with him have not been explicit about either of these figures.
His work is up to date.
He did not know lectures were mandatory -lecturers said they were 'important'.
He has had a large number of challenges which have effected his attendance.
I can't the brutality of the process. The stasi like language.
The lack of seeing young people (particularly the Covid uni cohort) as uniquely unlucky in uni terms.
The lack of support for someone struggling
The treatment of a student in a way which seems like they've committed real crimes not just misunderstood the rules.
When did the unis become such vicious places? I was so naive. I am horrified by their attitude. It seems like how you'd treat someone guilty of a serious crime.

In my experience, they do. They bend over backwards to support students who are struggling, which is why your story doesn't quite ring true to me. Of course, it's possible that the uni in question is just particularly crap, it is impossible for us to know.

So he had no warning at all from staff? Just straight to termination?

I'm not sure your son is telling you the truth. He will have had at least 2 warnings.

Same here and this was 2 years ago.

I attended around 50% of the lectures and watched the rest online (mature student, didn't enjoy long commutes and students chatting through the class)

Only people who had to attend were visa students -for home office monitoring purposes.

Regardless of whether lectures are optional or not, surely it’s a good idea to attend if he wants to learn anything?

there’s a big difference between “optional” and 0% attendance. Someone who doesn’t attend at all a university would be remiss not to follow up, and I agree with pp that there will have been numerous steps to support prior to just kicking him out.

“If he felt he did not need to attend lectures I don't understand why he would go to the expense of attending uni. He clearly feels able to self teach.“

Because you need a degree for a lot of jobs!

I missed plenty of lectures and got a first 🤷‍♀️

Wasn't two years ago mid Covid?

I feel for your son. TBH this reminds me of some of my own negative experiences of university (going back 20+ years), the use of sanctions instead of gentle reminders and encouragement being the main one. There is a duty of care here.

Apparently a lot of students are in the same position according to the student union.

Having all your work up to date should be a significant indication of engagement? Why would you complete your work if you were unengaged? Soz of his lecturers are poorer than others

I work in University attendance. There are weeks of steps that are taken before the threat of termination is enforced. Phone calls, emails, letters, meetings etc etc etc. Then the big guns. It won't have just been oh, you've not attended ANY lectures, boom you're out.

And if he had any mitigating circumstances they ABSOLUTELY would have been encouraged to apply for reasonable adjustments (which can include not attending lectures in person) and mitigation for attendance.

I suspect he hasn't been engaging with his university for MONTHS and only now has it come to light that he was on the verge of getting chucked out.

Why are you angry with the uni and not your dc if he didn't heed warnings about attendance?

Apparently a lot of students are in the same position according to the student union

Look I have a son who is in second year at Uni so I completely get the "covid cohort" thing. His first year was entirely online and it was awful.

I also agree with others that this will not be the first warning about attendance. The odd lecture missed is acceptable, but to get to the stage of being chucked off your course indicates a whole other level of missing lectures. Why is he missing so many? Does he not want to be on the course?

Yes - lectures were optional when I was a student in the early 90s.

Actually they stopped being optional when going to university became more common and universities started to babysit students more. The babysitting works both ways - students are more closely monitored but also helped more, prompted more, given access to more resources, given more lee-way in terms of extensions etc.

When lectures weren't compulsory it was because students were completely responsible for their own success or failure and expected to be far more independent in their learning and sink or swim.

You lost all my sympathy with this phrase The stasi like language.

You're not doing him any favours with your stance. It's very clear in the admission material that attendance is mandatory.

Lectures were optional when I was at university. I rarely went, and I got a first. However, seminars and tutorials were compulsory.

I would never have passed my Elec Eng degree without attending lectures (early 90's)

How can he expect to pass if he doesn't attend?

IANAE but this stance is part of the effort to ensure students aren't plagiarising their way through uni.

If they never turn up to lectures etc. and turn in food quality work they can be flagged as a fraud.

Why didn't your son just go to lectures? Uni isn't just about passing exams, attending classes is part of the training.

Food = good

OP, just think about it.

It would not be in the university's interests to randomly terminate a bunch of students without first taking significant steps to try to re-engage them. Think of the lost fee income, not to mention the likely onslaught of complaints.

I'm sorry, but I think your ds is sharing his own version of events, here. You haven't got the full picture.

I started decree 2019 so had 8 months on campus before lockdown.

Attendance was Definitely not mandatory for lectures but was expected for tutorials.

I discussed with my tutor not attending in person and watching recordings instead which they encouraged if worked for me. (And as they didn't take attendance anyway for lectures how would they know who attended or not for a 300 person lecture)

Did your DS not have any prior warnings regarding his attendance?
When I was at Uni way back in 1990 there were certainly registers taken at lectures but I don't think any one thought of them as being optional, if you didn't attend you thought you were "skivving"

He will have done. He may or may not admit it now, but there will have been ample warnings.

I am so shocked by this! I graduated last year, so not ages ago, and the dwindling numbers in the lectures was a running joke in the history dept. You'd start with 150 odd in the first week for cumpulsory modules, and have 10 or so on a good day in the last few weeks of each module. We were encouraged to attend, but no registers and your own issue if you missed necessary knowledge.

One of my tutors even had an explained policy that if less than 3 students came to seminar, we did it in a coffee shop, or it felt wierd. I attended everything, but was in the tiny minority.

Bet he knew about it before it got to that point though...

Certainly No registers

Not sure if this is standard but the universities that I’m familiar with don’t just look at attendance but also engagement with the online materials, any submission deadlines etc and if anyone is not engaging there are numerous supportive and informal steps first.

The final more formal letters (after a student hasn’t engaged with any of the earlier stages) need to be written in official language and contain specific information which is agreed as part of the policy.

I guess there must be some universities which go straight to the more formal approach but is there a chance that your child hasn’t engaged with the early stages and hasn’t told you that?

If they’re struggling they need to approach someone from the course or support services to get help.