Uni threat to terminate student's studies

[Allshallbewell2021]

My ds has just succeeded in his appeal against a termination of studies based on non attendance. He had no idea that lectures were mandatory. His attendance is lower than the bar they expect but the dept dealing with him have not been explicit about either of these figures.
His work is up to date.
He did not know lectures were mandatory -lecturers said they were 'important'.
He has had a large number of challenges which have effected his attendance.
I can't the brutality of the process. The stasi like language.
The lack of seeing young people (particularly the Covid uni cohort) as uniquely unlucky in uni terms.
The lack of support for someone struggling
The treatment of a student in a way which seems like they've committed real crimes not just misunderstood the rules.
When did the unis become such vicious places? I was so naive. I am horrified by their attitude. It seems like how you'd treat someone guilty of a serious crime.

I can't argue with that but I know institutions can be as defensive as individuals. My ds can be wrong and right at the same time as can his uni. I am comfortable with that complexity. I am hoping he manages to graduate despite a very tough few years and that students are fo not have their studies terminated in their third year without genuine attempts to engage with them. Maybe some academics are better than others at this?

So there were no attempts to engage with him prior to him receiving the letter? No contact from his personal tutor, module tutors or course director? Given that there is a clear process universities follow before getting to the point of a termination letter, if they hadn’t contacted him at all then, yes, something has gone wrong.

Generally there’s an automatic email sent to the students when their attendance falls below a certain point. So it’s not a case of relying on the academic to notice/do anything.

I mean I do also get an email and will also email the student to see if they’re ok. Normally they’re emailing me first in a panic after getting the automated email.

No, op, you're right. All universities are crap. All students are right all the time. Universities don't care about their students. It's all the same to them if their students pass or fail - they don't give a crap. There's no pastoral care, the universities don't give a crap. They don't give dispensations at the drop if a hat. They don't mollycoddle, spend ages trying to get students (who let's face it are technically adults and the cream of our youth) to engage, attend lectures, make the most of their opportunities. It's all the fault of the university.

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle - OP if he isn't well enough to figure out the requirements, engage with classes, engage with the multitude of support services, engage with emails about attendance etc well then I would wonder if he is well enough to be at uni at the minute. I would consider a leave of absence to allow him to focus on his health, and then return when he's well enough to do himself justice.

Universities and academics have no desire to monitor lecture attendance. It's time consuming and most of us prefer to treat students as adults and allow them to sink or swim. However last year as things were returning to normal, student engagement was appalling. Attendance was through the floor and then when assessments rolled around the number of fails was unprecedented. The work in the summer to get through the resit period was nonstop. And I've heard the same across the board from other departments and other universities. So, this year we're recording lecture attendance and sending emails. Not because we want to, but because we want to help the students.

Despite what some think, the vast majority of academics I know want students to do well and want to support students who are going through a difficult time - but we won't be dropping academic standards to do that.

If his first year was last year than I can't imagine that was very effected by Covid. Most of it had blown over by then.

Ontariobagnet "There will always be lots of students who get terminated for attendance, the majority of those did/do know the requirements. But either they’re not bothered or don’t think it will actually happen or are having such bad mental health issues that they stick their head in the sand."
I think this is what the uni thinks of my son like earlier posters who called him "lazy" and one "is he SEN?". I am impressed by your candour but I wouldn't put this in your prospectus that any parent might read.

I guess it might depend on the course and university. Pretty sure they were optional at mine.

I suspect there may be more about this situation that you have not heard everything.

It’s strange. HE is full of contradictions. You pay but have no choice whether to attend or not. You’re an adult but the Uni behaves as if you are a child. I find it baffling and I work in a university.

when I did my degree I barely went in but managed to pass. No one bothered to check. In year 2 I was largely missing. Not saying that’s right but situation now has academic staff grappling with electronic attendance monitoring, warnings, threats of termination.

don’t even get me started on assessment………

if your son is in trouble with attendance, tell him to get Student Union rep. If he has poor mental health mention the equality act to the Uni and get a personal learning plan from disability services. It will cover contingency and reasonable adjustments.

No his first year was in full lockdown, no in person lectures, and no social life - a disaster for huge numbers of students. I'm sure some came through stronger but many students I know say it was terrible and many gave up completely.
Thanks JenniferBarclay - that really helps to hear that and makes a lot of sense. I really believe that as well. I think he is really at fault but Covid was very bad for his year and it has had a long tail.

Thanks Railway he is doing everything he can to keep his place. He's really passionate to get a degree however much his attendance has contradicted that!

@Allshallbewell2021 So he won his appeal anyway. So they were ok with him in the end. I do get what you mean, I missed a lot of lectures for health reasons. My tutor even sent a bloke round to check that I was still alive.

I got a 1st eventually.

He could try and put this all behind him and focus on trying to get a good result now. You could try and encourage him to do that rather than focussing on how you both felt they'd 'done him wrong.'

Why wouldn’t I be open. I’d happily tell any parent that’s how the university operates. It’s how any university I’ve worked at operates. It reflects on any students affected not the university. I can’t make students attend. They’re adults.

I think the problem here is not that your ds has missed some lectures, but rather that he didn't respond to emails about his engagement and didn't ask for support when he needed it. There is a minimum level of engagement required, and if students don't respond when concerns are flagged, then maybe the university sometimes has to resort to shock tactics in order to make them realise that they can't just ignore it. Yes, the tone of the letter might have seemed a bit harsh, but if he didn't respond to any of the gentler communications that they had probably sent earlier, then maybe that's what was needed to kick him into action. They did still offer him an appeal and they allowed him to stay on the course, so maybe this is the wake up call that he really needed, and it might also serve as a catalyst for him accessing more support.

I do think that mandating all lectures (if this is true) is really odd, but surely he must have had a lot of emails, messages and visits before things got to this stage?

In the nicest possible way, saying “But… COVID cohort!!!”for ever and ever isn’t going to do these kids any favors. If they missed out on some socializing during COVID, they would probably benefit from a gentle boot in the bum to do more in-person stuff now, rather than hiding in their rooms using COVID as an excuse.

In the nicest possible way, saying “But… COVID cohort!!!”for ever and ever isn’t going to do these kids any favors

Absolutely. Last year I went from frustrated to sympathetic. But this year I feel they've had a year to readjust, and now it's time to step up and do what's required.

I think some parents really struggle with the fact that university students are adults and they expect a lot more handholding than universities are willing or able to provide. There is tons of support on offer if students take the initiative to ask for it, but fundamentally, they are adults who are expected to take some level of responsibility for themselves. Most students seem absolutely fine with this, but a lot of parents seem to want the university to take over the role of nagging parent because their kids have not been taught to be responsible for themselves.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves As you say, universities will be very supportive to students with problems. They definitely were to me even though I didn't yet have a diagnosis of anything much at the time.

But the age at which some parents see their offspring as adults seems to be, like, forties or older now.

well my college, not oxbridge, we had to do essays nearly every week, for different subjects, sometimes 2.
and read them aloud to a tutor who was teaching a different subject, which i found difficult.
some of them were marked by the relevant subject teacher, but that was because it overlapped with a different faculty.
bit complicated to explain. it was a long time ago.
obviously things are different in many ways now.
but i'm surprised at the idea there was no homework.
we also had end of year exams.
those who failed the first year exams had to retake the failed papers, new unseen questions of course.
exam conditions, no books or notes.
several people left voluntarily in the first year, esp from my tutor...

In the States, where university education is very expensive, you would not pass a module if you miss two ( ! ) sessions out of a term. The fact that there are tuition fees doesn't mean you can do the f* you want. You are not buying a degree.

DD was at university in France for her year abroad 2021/22 and there were units for which any non-attendance meant a fail, with no 'virtual' attendance available as an option. As to what official 'covid' rules were in the country at the time, I have no idea - I just assumed that if any kind of quarantine was involved, there was (officially or otherwise) some kind of dispensation for university students.

At DD's university everything was back F2F for her final year (2021/2022). She was so happy to socialise with her friends from her course again after lectures.

Are people saying that many universities were still all online then?

Those of us who work at universities know how the system works and while it may vary slightly between institutions one thing is for sure, there will be a clear attendance policy and that policy will have been set out in the student handbook. Your son chose not to read it and chose to ignore any attempts to rectify the issue early.

Students unions will deal with student withdrawals every day. That's not unusual or an indication that a university is at fault.
If I've had to withdraw a student for non attendance/lack of engagement the first thing I advise is to go the SU for advice and support with an appeal. In my experience lots of appeals are successful too. Again, not an indication that that university is negligent, but a sign the system works.

Universities have to taken attendance monitoring and engagement seriously- there are all kinds of ramifications if they don't.

Thanks Violeta,
I appreciate that. All these processes must have happened then and he ignored them.
I just hope he manages to graduate.
Thanks for the shared experience.