DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

In my experience though as an academic and tutor, students seem to be saying they have a lot of MH issues, but these don’t always seem to be borne out in practice, apart from a lot more applications for exam adjustments and so on.

Absolutely agree with this. It was my experience teaching at a university as well.

Most students came to me about anxiety over exams. Well, pretty much everyone has that!

I am from a working class background and assisted places and an Oxford degree has made my life. I was so happy to be there. It was my way out of poverty. If your son doesn’t have that desperation then fine. Let him move.

For the avoidance of doubt (as some posters projecting here): 1) DS is NOT feeling out of his depth academically (top of his class at school but perfectly sanguine that there are cleverer ppl at Oxford and he is performing well - 2.1 - top third - in first term exam); 2) he knows Oxford is a privilege but is not enjoying it - an intense, work-obsessed experience - whereas he wants a more balanced (fun) 3 years.

We advised him to go for Oxford with the best of intentions. It’s not the uni experience he wanted but he tried. So he will leave and restart as a fresher at York. We will cover his costs to start again.

DS2 - in year 12 so applying this autumn - will not be getting any unsolicited advice from me! I have learnt my lesson. He is less stellar than his bro and wants Sheffield Hallam for languages and business coz they are so vocational and have brill grad employment stats. This time last year I would have interfered coz he predicted AAB (Russell Group grades) whereas SHU only want BCC and there are other (better) options but I shall butt out after being schooled over DS1 on this thread

I’m aware of the changing nature of courses depending on staff and all other sorts of reasons but his belief was Imperial and UCL, ( the top ones If all you look at is league tables ) both of which he chose based on reputation. But both he didn’t like when he visited.
He was offered both, but declined after realising reputation was his only reason for choosing them and in the end he really didn’t want to study in London

His end choice had more pathology in the course, so he went for a better environment, the course and cheaper rent.

I think they all liked the fact he was doing Art Alevel as well as the usual bio, chem and maths. His art study was also anatomy based. Or maybe they were just desperate for a viola player in the orchestra 🤣…..it’s not unheard of

Your path isn't his path. Let him forge his own way

Support him in his decision to move to York. Oxford is clearly not for him, and I admire him for recognising and deciding to do something about it.

I think you’re very wise to support your DS, OP, and good luck to him.

My DC turned down the chance to study at Oxford. I was beyond thrilled when the acceptance letter arrived, upset when they turned it down in favour of another university. But to be honest, the application had been more my dream than theirs, coming as I did from a solid working class, polytechnic background I would have loved the opportunity. My boss at the time had a son at Oxford and was aghast that my DC had “thrown away the winning lottery ticket of life”. I must admit I secretly agreed with him at the time, but supported my DC unconditionally. They had an amazing time at their chosen university, have had a great career since, haven’t a single regret. As for meeting the movers and shakers my boss insisted would have changed their life - looking at the people in charge of our country right now, I think they’ve dodged a bullet there!

It also closes a lot too these days as companies (particularly financial services in the City) look for more diverse backgrounds. I am saying that from being involved for a time in graduate recruitment

If I had a child approaching university I would be encouraging them to get a balanced university experience as that will help with job interviews. What I mean by balanced is experiences that are academic, social and work related. Someone with just an academic experience will find it difficult to compete in the crowded graduate market

OP's DS needs someone who can listen. This might possibly have nothing to do with Oxford or York and might be something else entirely.

Is there a trusted friend, uncle, aunt, uni counselor, or tutor who can hear him out, let him vent and actively listen without judgment or opinion?

BTW OP should be extremely proud of raising an Oxford student. It really is the holy grail in UK/Europe/Asia and they must be doing something right?

Out of curiosity what subject is he studying?

My dc is in first year too though not humanities and not a clubby person. It’s been a really hard time with tons of work and minimal fun. We’ve talked about trying Uni somewhere else but my advice was to finish first year and then decide. I suspect in our case dc will stay but I’m sad it’s been so bleakly lonely so far.

York won’t really be any different but he might make it work, or he might make a couple of friends this term and start having more fun. As far as supporting him into the top Uni, I’d say you did your job and gave nothing to regret.

Is Oxford really not fun any more? I worked unbelievably but remember a lot of wonderful evenings not working as well. I do have to wonder with some other people if a move to another place is magically going to solve everything and I don't think as a parent you need feel remotely guilty about anything.

I think when it comes to universities, all we as parents can do is give our own preferences and the reasons why.

As I said to DD, she has to go there and in the end it comes down to what the university offers their students, how the course is structured and the cost of accommodation .

@Distressedstudent, this is your chance to show DS that you love him unconditionally and that his choice of university should reflect what he wants.

Explain that you made a mistake in not letting him make his own choice- that you did it out of love and with the best intentions but that you now realise that wasn't fair on him.

Please consider not creating any further obligation, pressure or guilt to do what you want as opposed to what DS wants. This is his life not yours and he needs to find his own way rather than being directed by you.

He's been really brave to rock the boat by admitting that's he's unhappy, and really proactive to look into whether York might accept him.

this is quite a mean comment. seems reasonable that op mentioned this because it gives context to her decision to encourage her son to go there. it's not just based on perception and reputation but obviously her own positive experience and no doubt makes her son's decision more difficult to deal with. some extra salt with your chips?

I think your boy has some growing up to do here.

I think saying you gave "duff advice" shows a level of immaturity.
Thinking there is "right" or "wrong" advice in every situation is such a teenage response, lacking in nuance or understanding of the world. Lashing out at your parents when things don't go as planned is also a pretty childish response.

I would point out to him that this is going to be a difficult conversation with York. Having once rejected them but now finding Oxford too much work, he will consider them? It doesn't make him sound like a student who loves his subject.

Low contact hours are the norm for humanities. As is the a degree of nerdiness for standard academic subjects. Sure, Oxford is intense but there are periods of intensity at all universities. Those essays don't write themselves. Does he really want to be at university at all?

I think the risk of regretting his whole life not going to York is slightly lower than the risk of looking at your pay packet every month and regret giving up Oxford after only spending 50 days there. But youth is wasted on the young, I know and its his dumb decision to make,

Why were you so obsessed with him going to Oxford? He clearly didn't want to.

he had no intention of applying

But you pressured him into it and now wonder why he is unhappy? Support his decision to change to York FGS.

I went on an open day to Oxford and decided there and then that it wasn't for me. It wasn't about the hours or the work, sounds as though he is capable of both. It was the general snootiness of the place and atmosphere.

Why is he not allowed to choose where HE wants to go to university? Do you control every other aspect of his life too?

He is technically an adult now. Cut the strings and let him go.

@mellicauli you are tone deaf - have u read the thread? As other posters are saying, my DS is showing great maturity. Please don’t call his decision ‘dumb’. Who do you think you are FGS? The arrogance, the lack of empathy!

Let him go to York and be who he wants to be not what you want him to be. I am glad he is standing for himself and not let you control his life. Are you also choosing him a job? Girlfriend? Wife ?

Oxford & Cambridge are not everything

He had the chance to go to Oxford and you encouraged him to take it. Had it suited him it would have been amazing. It has such kudos you’d have been mad not to encourage him to try. It’s not worked and hopefully York will offer him a place. Don’t give yourself a hard time.

Don't be ridiculous. Quite the contrary. He is showing maturity by stating openly that Oxford was the wrong decision and does not suit him, and also by trying to do something about it.

There is no dumb decision here. That is a very arrogant comment. He can still make his case to York. He can say that the decision to go to Oxford was always a reluctant one and against his better judgement, influenced by various external factors which he now realises were incorrect.

Plenty of students change both course and uni. They are not dumb for doing so.

It's a shame he's not enjoying it. You did your best though, if your worst parenting mistake is to encourage your child to attend what is generally regarded as the top university in the world then you must be doing something right! I'm currently doing my MSc ar York and I'd jump at the chance of switching to Oxford. Best wishes for this, and please don't feel guilty - you've absolutely no reason to.

It was a fantastic opportunity but he's given it a try and it's not for him. You're judging yourself with the benefit of hindsight but he might have regretted not trying it... now at least he knows.

This.

Pleased by your last updates OP, you clearly have the best interests of your DCs at heart.

It's such a tricky age and so hard to know what to do for the best, but a completed good degree is always better than dropping out and for your younger DS, other options exist as well. We have some amazing apprentices at our workplace in Financial services who could have gone to uni, but chose to be earning as they learned instead.

One thing stands out for me in reading the replies and that’s that he knows his own mind, and the importance of this. The importance, as a parent, of letting go and trusting your son’s decisions as an adult.

What do we really want as parents at the end of the day? I want a good healthy relationship with my adult children and I want them to be happy.