OR 22 - Edinburgh, Warwick, St A, UCL, Durham, Nottingham, Bath and more

[Valleyofthedollymix]

Following on from the Oxbridge rejects thread but I've got rid of those two words. I for one am interested to know where they all end up and when Durham might finally deign to reject/offer DS...

@Phphion Thanks for that interesting analysis. I won't be supporting a child through the process again but appreciate the insight. DS came out of school very chuffed with his reference and now I wonder if that was key.

Gosh the thread has moved so fast since I last came on.

@Geamhradh I have sent you a DM x

@Phphion Thank you so much for your post re PS. Whilst I think DD had a pretty good one I have DS applying next year so will most definitely be taking notes.

So sorry to hear about the rejections especially at this late stage it seems cruel. At least now though hopefully most of our lovely DC will have an idea of where they will be going. DD is 100% going to Bath this year, no more talk of taking a gap year THANK THE LORD!!!

Really interesting to see that analysis Phpion. I’m not sad that DS my youngest and no more UCAS applications. So sorry for those who are still waiting.

DS has made his decision and is going to firm Bath with Cardiff insurance, hopefully he will do this today. I think Bath accommodation opens next week and I’d like a discussion about which ones to put and also for him to get student finance done.

@Volterra your DS could have started his finance apication ahead of his final decision re where to firm / insure. The application deadline to guarantee that finance will be in place for the beginning of term is next Friday (20th).

I know MarchingFrogs but he didn’t see the need until college started nagging and I have learned to bide my time! I think he wanted to decide on his insurance and was waiting for mock results until this week .

Bath now firmed, Cardiff as insurance, student finance done and 7 accommodation choices ranked ready for next week when they can be entered.

@Aurea Given what we have seen this year on this thread with all of our outstanding student DC I think you are right to be very cautious about him applying to those 5. It is a gamble where he could end with none or all 5 I also think a less competitive choice would be worth adding to the mix.

Thank you for your responses.

Instead of putting a fifth less competitive choice for balance, what about putting in four more competitive choices before the Oxbridge deadline and waiting until just before the January deadline to put in the fifth? This might be useful to do and potentially influence the fifth choice if there have been any early unconditional offers as a Scottish student applying to a Scottish uni (optimistic, much). Anyone else done this?

Aurea, dc did a bit similar (last year):

As far as I remember
Applied early for
Oxbridge
LSE; her first choice
other high uni
lower uni

sat and waited

rejected from Oxbridge, quick offer from lower uni (so she had something in hand and wasn't too anxious about the whole thing/anxious about getting nothing)
applied for second course at LSE

(and then waited till late April to get LSE offer, withdrew from other LSE course (they don't offer both anyway) and other high uni so she could get accommodation booked

3 days late but we DEFINITELY are. All the threads are starting merge into one.

@Volterra Arrrgh!

@Aurea forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir but I didn't know any of this before DC1 applied. And again fee status is important as each applicant is assessed against others with the same fee status - they will have quotas for each. Contextualisation can also lead to early offers, as they tend to do these first.

But generally speaking, the universities are obliged by UCAS to give equal consideration to all who apply before the January deadline, usually around the 25th Jan. Most high tariff universities use a 'gathered field' approach whereby they wait until the whole cohort of applications is in before they even start to seriously look at any of them. Tbh I would doubt that for a subject as over-subscribed as Computer Science that your DS would hear back quickly (ie before Jan) from any high tariff uni unless his application was so overwhelmingly strong that an admissions tutor would know that your DS would be at the top of any cohort of applicants whomever subsequently applied that year. Thus for example the only DC I know of in DS's independent school cohort who got early offers (ie before the Jan deadline) from St Andrews also went on to get Cambridge offers and are unbelievably academically able (like predicted 5A* at A level able). Not sure what the equivalent academic attainment level under the Scottish system would be but you get the general drift.

There might be some merit in including a lower tariff choice right from the start order to tempt them into making an early offer on the basis that he's so strong for them (not meaning to imply he's not strong for everyone!) that they won't need to wait to see who else applies, especially if he's got grades in hand. It would also give him a nice confidence boost to have an offer under his belt and not be waiting until March and April. Some English schools I know are also very keen for their own internal admin purposes that their pupils make all their UCAS applications at the same time - not sure how widespread that practice is in Scotland though.

My honest advice would be - he's applying for a very popular course at very popular universities, and he'll face some very stiff competition. I'd have a back-up.

@Geamhradh Time on the beach, just 'chillaxing' (there, I said it DS), then deciding where to apply sound like a great idea to me. I assume the school start and end dates are different from here though if they're deciding in where to apply to in October. Term would be well underway in UK universities by then.
On the other hand, I do like the UK method whereby exams and uni applications are done away with and they can relax just waiting or results and then going off to uni or wherever without further ado.

@Aurea that is exactly what my son did. It became his first offer after the Cambridge rejection in January, followed by Glasgow a bit later. But virtually everyone has had a long wait into March for St a / Durham / LSE. York/ Bath seemed to be exceptionally keen to snap up best candidates with early offers. But don’t think you can game it.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I guess I'm just tarnished with optimism. My elder DS was lucky enough to get offers in 2019 (last cohort before covid struck) from Edinburgh, Durham and Glasgow in November/December for law. He's now finishing off at Oxford.

They are both state school Scottish but with no contextual offers.

Hmmm, lots to think about. I don't want my younger DS to go into the system with unrealistic expectations especially after his brother's success. I think things may be a lot different now.

@Phphion Wow! what a detailed analysis. This is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know because although I missed it out in my initial question, most people know it's the grades and PS (most schools write glowing references) that decisions are based on but clearly something more is going on if admissions are saying a whole cohort is generally weaker than previous years. I wish one could copy this post and share it with school heads to discuss with their sixth formers preparing for uni (not that they're not doing talks already!) but this is so much more specific.

Do you think part of why the PS statements are weaker this year is because they lack genuine content compared to previous years? I know many didn't get a chance to do work experience and for those that did, it was virtual so not quite the same quality of experience and that might come through in the PS.

Brilliant post Phphion really, really insightful.

Aurea your son sounds truly outstanding. I'm sure he'll have no bother getting offers, but it can't do any harm to put in a less sought after university as choice 5.

For context, DS made all choices in October. State school, non-contextual. He received offers from Edinburgh (3 weeks) and Strathclyde (5 weeks) really quickly. Glasgow was late Jan and St As last week! Oxford rejected him before interview (we already discussed months ago on MN that Scots are disadvantaged by Highers. For DS, as his Adv Higher Maths went on he realised loads of the MAT paper he found problematic was covered comprehensively- but this was too late. I think it was the MAT result that was the nail in the coffin. If we had known this we would have pushed for an early Adv H or located a tutor. For your DS he will have done Adv H Maths, a huge, huge bonus).

I must disagree with EightyTwenty that Glasgow is not as 'top' a university as the others you've listed. Traditionally it is difficult to get in- lots of DS's friends haven't this year. I've already mentioned before that 2 of my own pupils didn't get into medicine at Glasgow, but did get into Edinburgh, and a colleague's daughter got into Law at both Edinburgh and Glasgow but was rejected from Strathclyde (a super reputation for law). Strathclyde is particularly known for the Sciences and being cutting edge, so perhaps might be a possible choice?

I strangely know 2 of the country's top judges: my cousin (Strathclyde) and a school friend (Glasgow). Both attended my school- very ordinary comprehensive in our town just outside Glasgow. They both could not have afforded to live away from home, therefore excellent universities on their doorstep were a huge advantage.

I'm sure he'll be fine whetever you choose.

@Aurea From what I saw this year, few of the competitive unis (except Oxbridge) were likely to make offers before the deadline so I’m not sure about that strategy, but I guess there would be nothing to lose by it.
My DS initially only applied to Oxford in October, then added his other UCAS choices once he felt ready in November. He got an almost instant offer from Manchester, followed by rejection from Oxford. So yes, he felt the pressure was off while he waited for his other offers as he was happy with his Manchester offer - but it would be risky to rely on this as I know others who waited a long time to hear from Manchester. If you wanted to try this it would probably be better to put a “safer” bet along with Oxbridge and 1-2 others and keep the last slot open for a safer backup until January, just in case?
The unis on your DC’s list are all known for late decisions - maybe Glasgow is different but I have no idea if they make a lot of early offers?

Glasgow was middle of the toad in terms of offers for us. Edinburgh was our first, really rapid offer, so there are no hard and fast rules.

Road!

@Puffalicious btw you are right about Glasgow and indeed Strathclyde and other universities who have excellent reputations for specific subjects or disciplines. My comment was clumsily worded and reflected that St A was their top choice, and that it is seen as more prestigious. But I think like Oxbridge and LSE some of this is just down to having free spaces. I’m a great believer that success and happiness can come from many different paths and that a small number of universities are the only way forward!

are NOT the only way forward!

More thanks from me to @Phphion for that very detailed explanation of how PS are looked at. I guess you can't say where this is but I was interested in what you said about applicants ignoring the guidance that you gave as to what is wanted in a PS. I wasn't aware that universities/departments gave such guidance and I'd hazard a guess that DS was either.

I read DS's PS and found the whole thing a bit befuddling as I really couldn't see the point of it. My work requires me to find and impose narratives so I made some suggestions (which were small but would have been effective in doing so, I think) most of which he ignored. He kept on saying 'oh it's fine'. I didn't think so but then he showed me a friend's which I thought was properly awful, it even opened with 'ever since I was a young boy, I have been passionate about...'. The whole thing felt more to me as an exercise in avoiding egregious mistakes rather than a positive.

My nephew studied with Malala and I often think she probably had the only PS worth reading, what with the Nobel Prize and all. Then again, she could have just written 'I am Malala'.

@Aurea I gave DS no advice on where to apply but by luck I think he got it right. Manchester gave him an almost immediate offer back in October. This just took all the pressure off as he was like, well worst case scenario is a great scenario. DS is in no way as impressive as yours sounds but CS is insanely competitive. One of his friend's was a school superstar (in a school where 90%+ get As and A stars) and was rejected by three of his five for CS and his preferred offer was very late. Instinctively that list looks pretty toppy to me - might be worth looking into how many places each of them, how early the offer, what grades etc. Manchester, for example, were making 3 A star offers for CS - don't know how that translates into Highers.

@Aurea We have indeed been caught out this year by how much the admissions landscape has changed of late. Previous experience with our other two kids hindered rather than helped DC3 I feel. So DC1 Oxford in 2016 (History) DC2 Durham in 2019 (geography) both got five offers from variously Durham X2, LSE, St Andrews and Exeter. DC 3, same predicteds and v similar GCSE grades got 1 offer for IR from Edinburgh and rejected March/April by Durham, St As and v belatedly last week by LSE, and pre-interview by Cambridge for HSPS. God bless Edinburgh!

DC3 has gone for a much more popular course than his siblings but from what people have been saying on here and at DC3s school it seems clear that it's now so much more competitive at these high tariff places for most subjects. He feels somewhat regretful about giving Cambridge a go and for not putting Cardiff or Liverpool instead as he really liked both and feels he might have got an early and less high octane offer whereas now he has no insurance.

@Valleyofthedollymix Universities that commonly use the personal statement as part of their decision-making usually provide guidance on how to write them and what they are looking for. Specific courses may or may not provide additional guidance. If someone can't find guidance from a particular university, they can look at the guidance provided by other universities as they are all pretty similar.

Here are some good detailed ones:

• Imperial: www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/apply/selection/personal-statement/
• LSE, with an example of a poor personal statement including the ever-popular 'since I was a young child...': www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Undergraduate/Prospective-Students/How-to-Apply/Completing-the-UCAS-form/Personal-Statement
• Warwick: warwick.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply/personal-statement

I’ve got my fingers and toes crossed for your DS @fishingeagle . He’s been through the wringer.