OR 22 - Edinburgh, Warwick, St A, UCL, Durham, Nottingham, Bath and more

[Valleyofthedollymix]

Following on from the Oxbridge rejects thread but I've got rid of those two words. I for one am interested to know where they all end up and when Durham might finally deign to reject/offer DS...

Ditto to that re fishingeagle boy.

And thank god TangoWhisky re dropping the gap year flirtation, pheweeeee.

Many thanks Phphion, those links have been squirrelled away along with your other post and will be disinterred in three years' time for the next child.

@aurea think grade inflation has been the root of all evil in our experiences this year and now that exams are back on we will hopefully eventually get back to normal - although it might take some time. When DS sat his mocks the difference between the grades of students clearing the A star grade boundary in some subjects (math, further math, physics) was as large as 20-25%……with the exception of the Oxbridge process (which I think is more thorough as there are additional tests and interviews) I think it could possibly be difficult for universities to spot the exceptional students from those that are simply very good. So while your son may indeed be exceptional he needs to bear this in mind when making his application. I would second what another person said about Bath and York being quick to send out offers to excellent candidates - I would also put Exeter into this category.

@Stockpot you're so lovely; thank you. He seems preternaturally calm so not sure whether that betokens quiet confidence or a resigned acceptance of his fate!

I just feel like I let him down a little. Turns out this was a terrible year to aim quite so high. Having been to the puppet show and seen the strings I ought to have known better; I long ago ceased being starry-eyed about any of these places. One of DS's closest friends is still waiting on Warwick and has had four rejections so I'm at least grateful that DS was spared that.

Wishing your DC all the best Fishing Eagle

Thank you all ever so much for your replies, words of wisdom and advice. I am touched you have made the effort as my DS is from another cohort.

York was actually a uni my DC was considering for comp sci, but crazily they do not publish entry requirements for Scottish students on their website. York is a direct train ride from us so it could make sense. I've emailed admissions (my DC is in the middle of his highers so asked me to email on his behalf) so I will see what they say.

Regarding grade inflation, he was counting on his extra qualifications setting him apart from other candidates. He should have the Scottish equivalent of five A levels (one taken early) and six AS levels (seven of which will be grades in hand) when he applies. Scottish exams will also have the same mitigations in place next year as this year, so there may also be another year of grade inflation to contend with north of the border. If England doesn't follow suit with mitigations for next year's exams, it could be that more Scottish students may consider applying to English unis.

BTW paragraphs not working hence this big block of text.Sorry!

@Valleyofthedollymix thank you! I know he'll be ok but honestly he's been so stoic about his rejections. We'll all just be so happy for him if all goes smoothly.

@Aurea thank you! I'm sorry if I've overdone the doom and gloom. Your boy sounds amazing.

For what it's worth I'd probably consider applying to one of Durham or St As but possibly not both, as they seem to have had many of the same issues, ie small, over-offered recompounded by a restricted supply of local accommodation. Both are also pursuing new contextualisation targets which has changed

sorry @Aurea pressed send too soon !

meant to say targets for expanding access to under-represented groups have changed the intake at Durham and St As (and also at many other high tariff places including Oxbridge). It's possible to get caught between contextualisation targets and quotas for international students who pay more and upon which the universities' business models are predicated.

I'll shut up now. Need to go to work! Very best wishes to your DS.

For my sins, I've been on the student room and there's a parent whose son has had five rejections for history despite glowing school reference, a personal statement that Cambridge said was outstanding, national prizes, county sports, top music, all 9s and 3 A stars predicted. Leeds and Bristol being two of them so not an unrealistic UCAS. Can that really be true? Seems extraordinarily unlucky. Poor kid, really, and I hope he takes a year off and it all goes better next time.

I have a DD who went through all this last year, which was also a nightmare cycle because after the announcement in late Dec that exams would be cancelled again, unis basically seemed to stop offering. Where unis would usually over-offer by a certain percentage, last year they had to quickly alter their algorithms - especially in the more competitive institutions. Also there was the hangover from the previous Covid year, when unis like Durham were swamped with a surplus of students achieving the grades and had to pay people to defer. They just couldn't accommodate everyone. I really thought this year would have been better, but it seems not. Absolutely ridiculous when DC with top grades are only getting one or two offers - or even none!

Also, I just came over from the other thread where there is a discussion about Stephen Toope, Cambridge VC. It does feel that, in these difficult Covid years, he's really added fuel to the fire with his blatant statements to the press like, "We are actively reducing the number of private school students in this institution" (or words to that effect). It would have been so easy to rephrase that as, "We are aiming to improve WP." Ok, maybe it boils down to the same thing, but is it any wonder some students in certain schools will wonder if they are at the hard end of this man's agenda? So much is about phrasing.

Apparently, Stephen Toope is resigning amid significant criticism for having introduced various so-called 'woke' initiatives such as processes for reporting "micro aggressions" which some just see as an added bureaucracy that goes nowhere. He is Canadian and has been criticised for being out of touch with the historical and underlying idiosyncrasies of the UK school system - approaching it as if it were Canada - and, because of this, his WP (while well-meaning) is essentially a blunt tool. Apparently, he earns £430,000 per year and studied at Cambridge himself (obviously from overseas). It would be interesting to hear if his own children / grandchildren are being educated in sinking UK comps. It will also be interesting to see what the next VC brings to the table.

DS's friend who had all rejections did eventually get an offer from Warwick two days ago. Much relief.

@Piggywaspushed I'm so relieved for your son's friend and hope the uncertainty didn't de-rail his revision too much. Honestly DD would have been beside absolutely herself had this happened to her. It makes me so very angry that these places can't get their act together. If they can't make the system work better than this then the system needs to change.

@nxy DS goes to one of those schools. There is no doubt that more are applying to the US year on year and not bothering with Oxbridge at all. I would say the message has been received loud and clear and I'm not sure a change in VC at Cambridge will affect that.

fishingeagle - DD is also at one if those schools and yes, a lot apply to the US. But, if I look at the sample group of her friends who did go to various US institutions, it's more the case that they didn't do UCAS at all (as opposed to not bothering with Oxbridge specifically because of any perceived "we don't want the likes of you" message). The families are international and I think probably studied in the US themselves, so that's just their default and the process they are more familiar with.

Also, the school advised against doing both Oxbridge and Ivy League, as it's exhausting and just too much in most cases. For Oxbridge it's all about the academics. But for Ivy League, they essentially have to make themselves into a well- rounded "brand." The way the PS is written is entirely different and the school said it's very different to do both types of application effectively. Far better to go for Oxbridge or Ivy League but focus and give it your best shot, rather than spreading yourself too thin. This is what most people have done, as far as I can see.

fishing eagle - Also, what seems to be happening at the school mine were / are at is that the reason given for lower Cambridge success is nobody is being offered places from 'the winter pool' anymore. So there is now a pattern that those who are gaining places are the ones made offers at the colleges they applied to. I think the school uni person said nobody at the school had received an offer from the Cambridge pool in five years! But quite a few are still getting in if the college they apply to accepts them. I guess the message there is - college choice matters more these days if they're applying from an independent? I don't know, maybe the pool is being primarily used to top up WP quotas? It's hard to know what goes on behind the scenes.

Its different at Oxford though as, rather than 'pooling' they send you for interview at another college.

Whst I would also say is, if the three of DD's friends (and also her) who were pooled but not accepted in Year 13 but reapplied, all have been accepted this time round. Could be just them, I don't know? Could be the courses? Or could be that they are assessed slightly differently once they have grades in hand and out of any school context. Who knows?

@nxy sorry I was unclear - meant not just Oxbridge but are ditching UCAS altogether in favour of the US. Many of the high-achievers in my DDs year a few years back only applied to Oxbridge and maybe Imperial and LSE (unless they were medics or vets) and got offers but there is now a feeling amongst many of DS's peers that the odds of Oxbridge are too low to justify sacrificing US applications to it because as you say it is too much to do both.

Oxbridge have apparently now made it clear to the school that they only want the best of the best, which this year seems to have translated into at least 4A* predicted at A level and even then it will almost certainly be a no. So much parental enthusiasm for the US (meetings are packed) and the school are gearing up for it. Costs far too much for us I'm afraid. Congrats to your DD - as you say maybe post A level is the way to go.

I do worry that what seems to be happening in the private schools will dribble down to impact the supposed “excellent” state schools and grammars where grades are worth less because you are in a strong cohort. How can these DCs stand out if their grades are not enough? And it’s very hard to get impressive work experience these days as lots of schemes are only open to specific groups. Maybe we will see the introduction of the A star star?

@Igglepigglesblankie I think there's talk of numbers for A levels to introduce something like 9s at GCSE for exactly that reason. A* isn't seemingly special enough anymore.

That's interesting fishing. Yes, the IS is sooo expensive and a whole other rigmarole which is why we didn't even think to consider it. Who knows what it will be like in a couple of years when I have another one applying for uni?

On the reapplying to Cambs (it may be the same at Ox but I don't know) - for most humanities and social sciences (perhaps with the exception of economics if I remember rightly) there is 'compulsory pooling' for anyone applying with three A* achieved. I'm sure people know this but just wanted to mention it in case anyone had DC on the fence about gap years.

Ah ! But how long before it becomes 4A* for automatic pooling I wonder given the way grades have gone .....

@nxy I didn't know that but tbh I think they way things have gone this year even if DS gets his predicteds he'll be delighted to take his Edinburgh offer up with a glad and enthusiastic heart. Bird in the hand and all that and neither O nor C offer his precise course at undergrad so maybe leave it for a Masters if he does well enough. But of course it would be up to him (crosses self and hopes fervently not to have to go through it again!)

I would welcome an A Star Star…..much easier to accept that your grades aren’t high enough than to be left wondering why you were rejected. University is about academics after all so it should be all about the grades. Either that or some sort of SAT like in the US?

fishing - yes, Edinburgh is great. My advice would also be to take that and run!

At DD's school (in the top 10 / 20 nationally in terms of results), they're 'not allowed' to take 4 A-levels anymore, unless one is FM or a language that they are already semi-fluent in. Apparently, they did some research by contacting all the unis their pupils generally apply to and they all said they can only look at the top three A-levels anyway (as most schools don't offer 4) and they now prefer an EPQ in place of a fourth A-level because it gives them independent research and evaluation skills they will need at uni in a way A-levels don't. This is what they said anyway. I remember there was a big presentation on this research and all the unis responses they had gathered in the U.K. (inc Oxbridge) and overseas.

Having said this, when C requested DD's exam certificates, they didn't just want ones for the A-levels and EPQ. They also wanted her ABRSM music ones (anything over grade 6) and D of E and LAMDA which I was surprised at as, although these carry UCAS points, C claim to be only interested in academics. So again, who knows...,

For those in the middle of all this it does tend to work out okay in the end. My twins finish their last law exams in June and most of their friends have found good graduate jobs - we currently have the highest employment rate for decades compared with 1982 when I gradated and then with 3m out of work it was the worst then for 50 years.

It may seem important at the time that they didn't get into XYZ but most of them end up somewhere including my older son who did not get his grades for Exeter and went to Reading through clearing. There will also be some unfairness eg my other son's B grade - top grade in the private school of the whole year for that subject (not that anyone will ever contexualise it) but clearly something went wrong at the school over that subject that no one get an A star and no one get an A (before covid). he was predicted A star. You jsut have to pick yourself up and carry on and not let it get to you too much.

I do think sometimes it is worth for those with younger siblings picking a less popular subject if that suits your plan too can work.

Yes, A** or A star^ is probably the way it'll need to go. Oh and there's presumably a reason why the GCSE scale has 1 at the bottom and 9 at the top....leaves room for a grade 10 in due course.

DC would have welcomed the A** / A star^ at A level as oddly enough no-one at their school who held an offer from a prestigious course or prestigious Uni failed to get the grades they needed last year .

Y13 UCAS advisory staff had a lot less work assisting students with missed grades for other non prestigious courses too . (I had a 'mole' on the inside)

@Xenia yes subject choice clearly very important - Biology and Geography applicants had quite a lot of success at DS school everywhere but Oxbridge. Economics/Business/Social Sciences/Engineering much less so. I know that some English unis are now offering four year courses with an integrated masters in some subjects and anecdotally they seem to be less over-subscribed so might be a good bet for at least one choice.

Another nail in the coffin for equal access to higher education the less well off parent/student ,

Needing to financially support dc for 4 years instead of 3 isn't an option for everybody, especially those with small age gaps between siblings.