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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Do you feel Prouder about Oxbridge because of going to the local comprehensive?

187 replies

Verysadatwork · 22/03/2022 20:06

I confess I do feel extra proud of ds getting to Cambridge for this reason

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 26/03/2022 14:39

Depends if they are university blind or not and university attended might not be a selection criteria at all. I think the door being opened is over stated for most grad opportunities. I do agree for a few it wouldn’t do any harm!

thing47 · 26/03/2022 19:01

I should think an elite university is a powerful differentiator.

It really depends on the profession. Some interview university-blind as @TizerorFizz says, others do not have it as part of the criteria. I'm guessing it still has a certain cachet in the City and at big London law firms, but in engineering, retail, publishing, communications and others, not so much. And medicine is medicine regardless of where you study – or so my doctor friends tell me.

PerpetualOptimist · 27/03/2022 11:02

Lots of strongly held views on this thread but also some very interesting hard data. One aspect not developed has been that around persistent regional differences.

As previously highlighted, the NE of England often underperforms in measures around secondary progress, HE participation etc. There will be other parts of the country with similar issues, though often disguised because they sit within a wider, generally more affluent region.

Although teacher salaries go further in such places, recruitment and retention can be difficult, local graduate level employment opportunities are not abundant and easily accessible in the same way as in the big centres like London, Birmingham and Manchester. These factors may well combine to limit average attainment and aspirations.

The fact that more students from educationally disadvantaged backgrounds are getting into elite universities and subsequently entering teaching, perhaps in their home region, may be an important accelerant in encouraging and assisting future cohorts of students to follow the same path and become teachers (and so repeat) or provide a pool of high calibre graduate labour in areas outside the 'defaults' of a small number of major conurbations and so lessen the current in-built geographic advantage experienced by those in the SE of England in particular.

This might also lead to a reappraisal of which universities are 'good' and which less so. Average salaries for Exeter graduates are typically ahead of those of Lancaster graduates but, accounting for the high proportion of SE of England students at the former, the Exeter economic 'valued added' might be marginal in absolute terms and poor relative to Lancaster. Equally Durham is a very strong, research-led university but it is really doing enough to help address the lower levels of secondary attainment and HE participation on its very doorstep?

TizerorFizz · 27/03/2022 16:37

@PerpetualOptimist

Is it really the role of a university to do this? Other people are very highly paid to solve these issues.

I would be interested to see if Oxbridge grads in teaching really do improve anything. At my old grammar we had 100% Oxbridge grads teaching maths. Were they great teachers? No. Two were but the others were in the wrong jobs. So I will be interested to see what happens.

Where housing is cheap, I do wonder why more talents grads don’t want to teach. Other factors are at play I think.

thing47 · 27/03/2022 17:54

I did a PGCE back in the day. During the course of it I realised that what I wanted to do was research and learn more about stuff I was interested in rather than pass on what I already knew. Selfish, possibly, but at least I had the foresight to understand that I would not have made a good teacher – and it left me with an abiding respect for those who are.

The point being that I think good teachers have a particular skillset, it may go along with being a clever, academically high-achieving student, but it is by no means inevitable.

libbytrois · 27/03/2022 18:00

I was state educated and many years ago was pooled at Cambridge but ultimately didn't get in. Was woefully ill prepared but feedback was lovely. I hate the thought that still exists that you are defined by getting into Oxbridge . Times have changed and odds are against my private educated kids going there. Luckily they don't feel the need to go for it and inwardly I'm pleased.

PerpetualOptimist · 27/03/2022 18:23

Absolutely @TizerorFizz, not all will agree with my viewpoint but I think universities can be a force for change. They have been in the past, for example the university expansion in the late-1950s and through the 1960s.

The sheer volume of public money cascading through the university system (even if decidedly modest on a per head basis) means universities are accountable for whether their focus and activities are ultimately in the public good.

I agree @thing47, teaching requires a particular bundle of skills but I am optimistic that at least some of those Oxbridge graduates choosing that route and perhaps returning to their home region will have a positive impact and encourage someone who might have thought Oxbridge 'wasn't for them' that it actually could be.

TizerorFizz · 27/03/2022 18:40

Money in the university system isn’t really there to make local schools better. Even with “golden hellos” we don’t get enough decent teachers in some subjects. Therefore DC make choices regarding employment and a university cannot change this trajectory - other than the old adage that I won’t repeat.

Universities do outreach. They cannot make DC a sensible Durham applicant if their A levels are at Northumbria grades. I am also not happy that lower quality universities market like mad to local schools where fewer DC go to university. This can mean very bright DC aim for what they offer and stay at home. They do add to the local economy but it’s very insular. We know certain ethnic minority DC are more likely to do this. It tends to limit earnings snd job progression. However it’s their choice.

TizerorFizz · 27/03/2022 18:50

Do we know how many Oxbridge grads come from areas which are deprived with poor schools and poor outcomes for students? Isn’t it maybe a vanishingly small number?

Xenia · 27/03/2022 19:46

Yes, I htink it has got worse over the years. My father and his brother went to Durham to read Medicine from a state grammar school in the Durham area. I checked a few years ago and that school, now a comprehensive, has NO children go to good universities, not a single one. I could tell that was the case as their A level press release mentioned the most successful pupils and they went to not particularly good universities. Yet if the area still takes the brightest children (and least bright but presumably has sets for the better ones) the percentages into Durham shoul dbe the same now as the 1940s unless the huge decline in the economic status of an area and people moving away results in that area doing worse. Eg my great grandparents moved to the Durham area because of the booming coal fields in the1800s and all the jobs (the reverse of today when my siblings and I ( 2 to of whom went to Oxbridge in the 80s from the NE) all moved away from there for work. In other words just as people moved to the NE for jobs including my ancestors from England, Scotland and Ireland in the 1800s) they also then moved away again when there was less work and we moved away from coal for fuel.

TizerorFizz · 27/03/2022 20:23

I think you know why these areas have dd Ines @Xenia - people like you are no longer there. You moved on and moved out. I rather expect your old school does it’s best but are there dozens of RG/Oxbridge capable students in that vicinity now? Are the middle class doctors now sending DC to private school to avoid the comps? I don’t know the answers but middle class mobility has meant the middle classes in some areas are a Turkey quite small. I’m not sure there are large numbers of DC who should be at Oxbridge in some quite large geographic areas.

I know a son of a miner. Nottinghamshire. Didn’t ever work where he came from. He got a good education and moved away. How many did this after grammar and university? Millions I expect. The better careers and money are elsewhere.

TizerorFizz · 27/03/2022 20:23

Aah!! Have no high achieving DC - first line should read.

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