Do you feel Prouder about Oxbridge because of going to the local comprehensive?

[Verysadatwork]

I confess I do feel extra proud of ds getting to Cambridge for this reason

@3WildOnes

www.oxfordstudent.com/2022/01/11/2022-undergraduate-admissions-sees-record-numbers-from-state-schools/

thanks for the measured responses.

it may be political for me: a bit like when the NHS treatment turns out to be the best.

ok. it is political! I think a world where there was an advantage to going to a non-selective state school to get into Oxbridge would be a better world.

Season, I simply don't believe that Cambridge Evening News report and think figures are being massaged.

DS came home at Christmas able to name all the private schools that his new friends had come from, and that's at Churchill which is very down to earth and specialises in science. (it's not like Peterhouse or something) .

I also don't believe that 25% of sixth-formers go to private school

All his new friends in Churchill came from private schools,or he just happened to know the names of the schools they came from?
Did he make no state school friends or just didnt know the names of those schools?

If you left school at 15 and brought your dc up single handedly on a sink estate then yes feel proud for what you have done. Otherwise just feel proud of your dc for achieving their potential. They are not cleverer because they went to a state school. The majority of state schools deliver an excellent education and the Uk is a developed country with loads of opportunity.

[quote SeasonFinale]@3WildOnes

www.oxfordstudent.com/2022/01/11/2022-undergraduate-admissions-sees-record-numbers-from-state-schools/[/quote]
Those links don’t state how many of those state educated children come from grammar schools though? In 2018 over 60% of pupils were educated in private or grammar schools so comprehensively educated pupils were in a (albeit large) minority.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/oxford-university-cambridge-state-school-socially-inclusive-ethnicity-sunday-times-guide-david-lammy-a8551036.html%3famp

Verysadatwork - but, to be fair, what your son tells you about a few people he’s met is hardly representative of a national survey or the facts of the national picture!

Just Google “percentage of sixth formers in independent schools” and you will see for yourself.

Have you not looked at the Cambridge admission statistics that are freely available and presented in a very accessible format every year? If you don’t want to believe the Cambridge newspapers, just Google ‘Cambridge Admission Statistics’ and it’s all there.

I think at sixth form it is 20% at private schools so 72% Cambridge state schools pretty much reflects the true proportions you might expect particularly as some at private schools who to Oxbridge are on full scholarships at school.

Therefore if it is as easy to get to Cambridge from state or private sector then I am not sure pride particularly comes into it. If instead sink comp pupils get a contextual consideration may be there should be less pride for a state school parent than a private school one if the odds are now tipped the other way?

Anyway pride is a sin and comes before a fall.

however - yes well done.

Average money spent on comprehensive kids education per year is 7k and private schools 13k, the gap having more than doubled in the last decade, so yes, very proud of my comprehensive kid who has an offer for Oxford this September

“Average money spent on comprehensive kids education per year is 7k and private schools 13k, the gap having more than doubled in the last decade”

Yes, this.
And of course grammar schools just remove 2/3 of the natural cohort so the £ goes further.

Nolans - it just reminded me of the cultural dominance that public schools “do” and train their pupils to continue. Was the same for me at uni. I was just “expected” by my public school peersto recognise the names of their schools, they weren’t expected to recognise the name of mine, etc,etc. Indeed the idea of them learning the name would have been considered absurd.
It goes beyond percentages I think.
[still more persuaded by the 60% selective figure upthread]

....mind you that “ considers themselves working-class“ statistic also seems very dodgy as the people I know who talk about being working class are usually posh university academics

OP, just have a look at the Cambridge stats.

The vast majority at your son’s college will be from state school. At least 70% will be - because this is the case at all colleges. At my son’s college it’s more like 80%. Yes, a proportion of those will be from grammar schools. If you want to know how many come from what sector, the info is all there, for the last five years snd beyond. No point talking speculatively about what you ‘think.’

Also, Cambridge colleges (and Cambridge generally) are more wealthy than other unis and spend more per student. Think of the small supervisions your DS is receiving, compared to others who are in large seminars, with far less invested in them per head.

So now your son is ‘privileged’ by dint of having been to Oxbridge, should he (and you) be any less proud when he gets a job after graduating, compared to someone else getting the same job from a non-Oxbridge uni?

YANBU. Both of my DC went to Grammar schools, both of which had experience of what was needed to support Oxbridge applicants.

DD has a friend in her college who went to one of the dodgiest schools in the area I grew up in which is a massive achievement. She's probably the only student from that school to get in in over a decade. DD is suitably impressed.

Good for your dd.

I guess the absolute deal-breaker is if you come from a functional family and functional school or not. I remember Billy Connolly saying “I didn’t “come from nothing” I came from something”.

MY DC attended a state school which was one of the very most poorly funded schools in England for the duration of almost all of their time there (there was a marginal improvement in the last couple of years for the youngest of the eight of them). A grammar rather than a comprehensive admittedly but right at the very bottom of the chart for state funding. It's not occurred to me to be 'prouder' of them because of the huge difficulties created by the lack of funding. I've tended simply to think they were lucky to have a very good education on a shoestring, thanks to the effectiveness of the team leading the school through very, very thin times.

I went to Cambridge from a low achieving state school where most pupils didn't do A levels or go to university - most people went on 'new deal' as it was then, or did an apprenticeship or went on the dole after year 11.
I always had this feeling I was there to fulfill some kind of quota, which I know is bollocks, but I didn't feel more proud. I think now it probably was harder to get in but in another way my complete nativity might have made me seem more... Original or something?

I would say to those who dismiss funding as being relevant to the quality of education because the school happens to be selective: you try to sustain the quality of education on the figures in question. The SLT had to virtually be magicians. Very tough decisions, month in, month out, including on staff recruitment obviously, which is the make or break area in terms of student experience.

Sad that you felt that way Makka.

I shared a room with another girl from a comp at Durham and we were considered freaks of nature by the dominant public school set. It was so weird though I didn’t see it like that at the time because they had us where they wanted us.

I’d better go name change because of the details given.
Still not quite sure why I feel prouder - mixture of good and bad reasons I guess.

Thanks for the civility all and to all a good night!

Verysadatwork and Makka when were you there?

@goldenembers

Well “the local comprehensive” will mean completely different things depending on its catchment.

Independent schools also vary a lot. Possibly more so than state schools.

These days, around 75% of sixth formers are in state schools and 25% are in independent at that age. Accordingly, around 75% of those entering Oxbridge in recent years are from state schools. Everything is contextualised. And they also know that some independent schools are poorly-run and absolutely shocking.

Also I’m not sure what ‘special information, advice or classes people think students in even the top independents are receiving? My DC is at Oxbridge from one of the London Day Schools and there was absolutely nothing, except for a talk in Year 12. How can they be providing ‘bespoke advice’ when they have about 100 applying across the full range of subjects and one Oxbridge advisor? The Oxbridge advisor did not help with the PS at all - how could he? He’s not an expert in all subjects. All the Oxbridge advisor did was asked for all early applications to be sent to the school in late Sept do they could check there were no clashes (ie two students applying to the same college for the same subject) before they attacked the references. That’s it. There is nothing any advisor can tell you that is not easily available on the internet or the Oxford or Cambridge stats that are published every year. The school did give two mock interviews though. Also, it is true that teaching was delivered online throughout lockdown.

I’m not sure what ‘special information, advice or classes people think students in even the top independents are receiving?

Well, from your post alone, they're receiving:

• a talk in year 12
• support from an Oxbridge advisor
• checks from clashes
• 2 mock interviews

I've taught in several state schools. One has an Oxbridge talk most years, if there's someone available to run it. I haven't seen any of the other things happen.

I'll add that I think my mam was proud of me but still thinks I went to a mysterious university called 'oxbridge' 😂

@goodbyestranger

Verysadatwork and Makka when were you there?

2000-2001 I did a master's there