Do you feel Prouder about Oxbridge because of going to the local comprehensive?

[Verysadatwork]

I confess I do feel extra proud of ds getting to Cambridge for this reason

Our local private school is shocking. Results much lower than the outstanding comp. So no surprise that the comp gets far more offers from Oxbridge and RG uni's. But they are not contextual offers, we are in a middle class area so quite rightly the comp wouldn't qualify. The kids at the comp work bloody hard and deserve every achievement they get. The kids at the private school work hard too but have been let down by their parents for choosing a school based on its supposed posh status and tumbledown grand facade, rather than its teaching, management and development ethos.

I moved, at 16, from a school where 2 or 3 applied each year, to a school where 20+ applied each year.

It was just seen as a normal thing to do. Discussions around open days, the relative merits of both, various courses. So more people looked closely, then thought to try. It wasn't a mystical thing.

The head teacher knew by mid yr12 who was thinking of applying, and gave help as needed and gentle enquiries made of anyone not on the list who they thought should try.

I don't think I would have ever applied without being in that environment. I didn't get accepted, but its not a failure really.

Anyone who works hard and achieves their aims should be proud.

quickly checking in to say I'm reading your detailed posts goldenembers.

I like this bit:

"What they are looking for is a student who has ‘outperformed’ in terms of their educational / family background. Contextualisation is a blunt instrument in many ways, but it’s better than nothing.
So a student who is likely to achieve the minimum grades A*AA from a highly deprived school where there is massive disruption and most pupils won’t even stay on for A-levels, has already proved they are exceptional against the odds. "

I agree and support contextualisation.

the weird posts referred to upthread are the bonkers Xenia one and others of the "pity the poor rich child" ilk (but we love you Xenia and it's always an honour to have you land on my threads and you never take anything personally which is why you're awesome)

My DS had 11 9s at GCSE, 4 predicted A* A levels and an additional AS A banked, and still didn’t get in. Plus a lot of competitions won etc. Yes, he’s been privileged and we’re well aware of that. But please don’t claim that his results are somehow worth less than those of kids from comps that got offers.

As it happens, he didn’t want to go to Oxbridge anyway and has just got an offer from his top choice (and he already had offers from his other three) so all good :)

@Sunshine4Ever2

My DS had 11 9s at GCSE, 4 predicted A* A levels and an additional AS A banked, and still didn’t get in. Plus a lot of competitions won etc. Yes, he’s been privileged and we’re well aware of that. But please don’t claim that his results are somehow worth less than those of kids from comps that got offers.

As it happens, he didn’t want to go to Oxbridge anyway and has just got an offer from his top choice (and he already had offers from his other three) so all good :)

But they are worth less than the exact results achieved by a child who didn't have those privileges.

I have direct first-hand experience of both private and state education, as well as teaching at universities.

I’m not sure it’s helpful to tell one child their results are ‘worth less’ than another’s.

You can recognise that some children face greater challenges in life (in many ways, not only by virtue of the school they attended) - without reducing what should be a relevant and nuanced discussion to polarising language and overly simplistic cheap shots at ‘the privileged children.’

By that logic, you could equally argue that a degree from Oxbridge is ‘worth less’ than a degree from a non-Russell group uni of the type that never gets a mention on MN - simply in the grounds that the student in the lower ranked uni would have been less ‘spoon fed’ than their privileged counterparts at Oxbridge and would have had to be more resourceful and self-motivated to get their degree.

Which kind of begs the question of what is the point of trying to get into Oxbridge or any other “top” institution at all if it means your achievements will be considered “less” as a result?

The OP herself states that she went to Durham back in the day. Already, that gives any child she has a head start in life, over someone whose parents have no experience of higher education.

Thank you.

My point is that most of those who did get in are unlikely to have matched or exceeded DS’ stats. What exactly could he have done to raise his game? Volunteering - he had plenty of that. Work experience? Tick, even in Covid.
I totally get that he had an advantage by where he went to school but what could he have realistically done to mitigate this? Our friend who vets admissions warned us that his chance was very small from the start, because of where he was applying from.

As it happens, he didn’t want to go to Oxbridge anyway and has just got an offer from his top choice (and he already had offers from his other three) so all good

Maybe this is your answer, if your DS's heart wasn't in Oxbridge and therefore he wasn't suited to it, then probably that was picked up at interview, assuming of course that he got that far. There would have been many more interviewees who genuinely did want a place. It's not all about grades and competitions.

No, he didn’t even get an interview. Which seems strange given his stats. But oh well, he’s got his top choice.

It is a fantastic achievement for any pupil to get an Oxbridge place, whatever educational background they have. But it is easier to come by if you have had a lifetime of leg ups along the way, principal of which is a private education. This is precisely why private school parents shell out thousands and thousands of pounds for education. If it were just as easy to get Oxbridge places from state schools, private schools would be struggling for clientele!

The problem is that in these recent Covid years, so many are being rejected with very top grades and it’s because of grade inflation across the board. It’s very hard for them because , as you say Sunshine4Ever2, what more could they have actually done? You can’t get higher than a 9 or an A*. In any school! It’s not only Oxbridge who are rejecting top grade applicants in these recent years snd people are only human so of course it’s going to feel frustrating. So much is down to luck. The differences between those who get offers snd those who don’t are wafer thin.

Also, it really depends what you’re applying for because for some very competitive subjects the offer rate is about 8%, but in others it may be as high as 50%. “Getting into Oxbridge” will mean very different things for different people, that’s for sure! You can’t really draw direct comparisons.

My second DS also got 11 grade 9s at GCSE. (Real exams sat in 2019). This was the best ever result for any pupil at his state school.

He's taken a year out after A levels and has a place at Oxford starting in October, having done his Oxford application & personal statement without any school help.
I'm pleased we didn't consider wasting money on private education for him.

BlusteryLake - some private schools are absolutely crap. People are paying for “other things” not necessarily the academics. Take boarding schools, for instance.... They are not all Eton or Winchester. Many of these are not that academic at all - it’s more a lifestyle choice. Maybe it’s to meet the right kind of people? Maybe it’s because some parents are frequently abroad? Maybe they just think it’s “the done thing?” I don’t know because I have no experience if that type of school so I can’t comment.

What I can tell you is that, if I had my time again, I would pay good money for one of my DS to NOT attend the private school he went to because it was absolutely crap in every sense of the word. Run by a bizarre family of inept lunatics. Believe me, small classes mean nothing if the teachers have been there donkey’s years and are unfit for the role of teaching. Yet they stay in their posts because they’re friends of the family who run the school. In a state school, OFSTED would have seeded them out years ago. Oh and any SEN? Mild dyslexia anyone? Sorry we can’t deal with that here. You’ll have to do it yourself.

There are many private schools which, in my view, are not fit for purpose. On the other hand, my other DC attended London schools that were academically excellent (because they managed to get in whereas the other one didn’t and couldn’t have coped in those environments anyway). But in terms of numbers if applicants to places, these schools were harder to get into at 11 plus than most courses at Oxbridge. With independent schools, you don’t necessarily get what you pay for. How academic a school is will correlate to how selective it is. Just like in the state sector, obviously. You still have to get into the school. Some grammars and independents in London have about 15 applicants per place at 11 plus. Hardly a shocker that this type of school will field more Oxbridge applicants.

Thank you @stickynotefever and @goldenembers for your very articulate and reasoned posts. These threads always become polarised on both sides.
@Sunshine4Ever2 I don't know what subject your dc was applying for but you can't know that other candidates did not match their achievements. My ds achieved 10 x Grade 9's snd 2 Grade 8's (exams actually taken in 2018), took an AS in his subject in Y10 and got an A was a second round Olympiad winner who had a Maths solution published from a non selective state comprehensive where only 9 students achieved any Grade 9's. He achieved in the top 10% of the MAT test. So I hope he would have been match for any other candidate wherever they came from.

@beeswsain Well done and congratulations to your DS (as I assume he’s graduated by now). Of course I didn’t mean that no other applicants matched my son’s stats, only that very few would have significantly topped them and we were explicitly told by someone who deals with admissions that his application would go to the bottom of the pile because of where he came from.

@Sunshine4Ever2
Why did you pay for him to go private if you knew that it might disadvantage him?

@Sunshine4Ever2 thank you he is a second year (went up in 2020).
I would be very sad if indeed your son's application did go to the bottom of the pile, that's not my understanding of how things work. There is a very enlightening article by Alan Rushbridge, at work so no time to find and link, but if you Google his name and Oxford admissions it will come up. Sheds some light on tbe process.

We chose the best school for him at the time. No thought of where it might take him. Lots of things have changed since, but we have no regrets. As I said, Oxbridge was never his first choice, and he has 4 fantastic offers including his top choice. I was just giving an honest response to a question.

Sunshine4Ever2 - was it O or C your DS applied to and was it a very competitive course? I’m surprised with his stats he didn’t get to the interview stage . Cambridge say they interview around 80% of applicants. I think their website says they interview “anyone with a reasonable chance of an offer.” Well 11 9s and all A* predictions - sounds more than reasonable to me!

It was Oxford, where the interview stats are a lot lower than Cambridge as they eliminate more candidates at this stage. And with hindsight the odds for his particular course were especially bad: 300 applicants and 8 offers. Seems they had a lot of deferrals from last year.

Wow. Just in case you weren’t aware - if this was a humanities or (most)? social science subjects at C and he was to reapply post- A-level with at least three A* achieved, he would be guaranteed an interview and alsi guaranteed to be “pooled” if his first choice college didn’t accept him. (That is, if the policy doesn’t change for 2023).

@Sunshine4Ever2
Would you go the same route again? Now that 'things' have changed?

Take a look at the “Oxbridge rejects” thread. Every single one has perfect grades.

Absolutely. Because it was always about what was best for DS, not about buying him a place somewhere. And despite Covid etc he’s had an amazing secondary experience. And has made friends for life. And has offers from his top choice unis.