Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Lecturer's child at open day for second time

599 replies

Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 11:57

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

OP posts:
bombytomy · 05/03/2022 18:06

@HaveringWavering

To give you some context here. Academics are required to attend conferences to disseminate research results to the scientific community. However, academic mums struggle with this. University or research funding doesn't pay for a carer to come with. It's expected that children are looked after by someone while the mum is presenting, which is of course not the case if you're a single mum or cannot afford to pay for someone to come to Mexico or wherever with you. So it has become usual for academic mums to tow children with them to conferences (and pay for a nanny during the presentation, as well as airfare and so on)

JenniferBarkley · 05/03/2022 18:11

[quote littlemisslozza]@MissAngorian so, it'll be ok for your DC's teachers to take their kids in to their own school on term time days that don't match their own then? Distracting their parent and taking the attention away from the class? I imagine there would be many complaints if teachers did such a thing. Same with other professionals. Where you have plenty of notice of events that you need to attend, failing a childcare emergency, you shouldn't just take young children along who can't sit quietly. It is unprofessional and it doesn't look good.[/quote]
I wouldn't mind at all if a teacher running, say, a school concert on a Saturday brought their children along occasionally if they had childcare issues. That's a better analogy.

Draculahhh · 05/03/2022 18:12

I'm going to go against the majority here, I am on a course made of primarily mature students. We all have families, have to find childcare and organise our lives in order to pass our uni course.

We had a lecturer like this, it started with her bringing her child in to lectures, then she started arriving later and later and leaving earlier and earlier because of her childcare issues.
It became such an issue we had to raise it with the university because we simply were not getting the input we needed to pass.

I get we all have times where we have no choice but I think it's unprofessional at best.

SpinsForGin · 05/03/2022 18:14

[quote littlemisslozza]@MissAngorian so, it'll be ok for your DC's teachers to take their kids in to their own school on term time days that don't match their own then? Distracting their parent and taking the attention away from the class? I imagine there would be many complaints if teachers did such a thing. Same with other professionals. Where you have plenty of notice of events that you need to attend, failing a childcare emergency, you shouldn't just take young children along who can't sit quietly. It is unprofessional and it doesn't look good.[/quote]
Wouldn't a better analogy be a teacher bringing a child to an event taking place on a Saturday which falls out of the teachers standard hours and when paid for childcare is harder to come by?

titchy · 05/03/2022 18:15

They provide a service for money. A business then....

Girl guides provides a service for money. Are they a charity? Your Oxfam shop on the high sells products for money. Are they a charity? DEC is currently providing emergency aid - for money (irrelevant that those receiving the aid aren't the ones paying for it). Are they a business?

No. A business aims to make profit. That's what makes it a business. Universities (at least those designated as publicly funded) are not allowed to make profits. Therefore they are not businesses.

HTH Hmm

titchy · 05/03/2022 18:17

Blush Obvs I meant - 'are girls guides and your local Oxfam shop businesses'

RobinBlackbird · 05/03/2022 18:18

Girl guides and Oxfam are run by volunteers.

TheMerrickBoy · 05/03/2022 18:20

The argument that students are customers paying for a service is more damaging to students than it is to anyone else - the obvious issue is you can't pay anyone to 'do a degree to you': whoever pays for it, the student has to do work. The increasing resistance to this idea is a huge issue, and if this 17 year old is thinking about his degree like this, that's going to harm his chances more than anything about his background or context.

nightwakingmoon · 05/03/2022 18:21

@DrMarple

We are under no obligation to do open days. It’s on top of our normal workload (unless you are the admissions tutor). If I gave up my Saturday for no benefit to me I might also bring my child rather than have to arrange and pay for childcare. Also wtf about asking a student to do it? That would be completely inappropriate.
^^This.

so lecturers attend open days/offer holder days out of good will?

Yes. I’m not contracted to do it; it’s a work event I do unpaid on a Saturday, out of pure goodwill to be helpful to applicants. Your DS sounds entitled and totally unaware that many people in HE are giving up their free time to do a work event they don’t have to do, just so that applicants can attend but in school time. Totally out of order TBH.

By the way, when I applied to university open dats were often during the week so you had to get time off from school to attend. And your parents didn’t drive you, you went yourself. (90s). Universities do open days at the weekend purely for the convenience of applicants, at times when staff don’t have childcare provision and aren’t obliged to attend, and you might point this out to your DS in future. They are doing him a favour, not the other way around.

And 9k a year doesn’t pay anywhere near the real cost of providing the education.

Original poster
Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 18:22

@PerpetualOptimist
I wasn’t going to post again until I read your post. Thank you for being impartial and looking at the bigger issues. It makes me sad too to read about the pressures being placed on staff around open days. But I also feel sad to hear resentment towards my son. He has a right to question

OP posts:
nightwakingmoon · 05/03/2022 18:22

*so that applicants can attend NOT in school time.

TheMerrickBoy · 05/03/2022 18:22

I'm jealous of the people who work in places where open days are run on good will - and intrigued! What happens when there isn't any good will, as indeed there isn't right now?

littlemisslozza · 05/03/2022 18:22

@JenniferBarkley yes, taking children along to watch a play or a concert that they will sit through is absolutely fine and encouraged even. Having them in the classroom while teaching - the poster I was replying to was planning to be presenting to an audience- seems like a very similar situation to me and not appropriate.

@HaveringWavering ok. Most would not be. Bear I mind I have three DC and teach secondary school pupils in a practical subject... Thankfully mine are older now but there is no way on earth I would have taken them in when they were little to sit through a day's teaching, not fair on anyone and incredibly distracting.

Original poster
Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 18:24

All of you academics need to really wake up to the fact that kids don’t know you’re giving up your time. Why would they?

OP posts:
TheMerrickBoy · 05/03/2022 18:26

@Igloo71

All of you academics need to really wake up to the fact that kids don’t know you’re giving up your time. Why would they?
What do they think? That we get paid a bonus, or double-time or something?
bombytomy · 05/03/2022 18:27

And what is the conclusion of those conversations?

The conclusion is that we are not businesses and students are most definitely not customers. This is not to say they shouldn't expect great teaching and science. They should expect it, and they get it not because they are a consumer waiting to be served a dish at a restaurant but because they are students going to university wanting and working hard to learn, and academics are some of our nation's finest thinkers and scientists working under hard conditions trying to produce their best science and teaching it.

titchy · 05/03/2022 18:28

@RobinBlackbird

Girl guides and Oxfam are run by volunteers.
And? Still doesn't mean the provision of goods or services for money is what makes the organisation a business. Although to be pedantic both Oxfam and GG do have paid staff - the manager of the Oxfam shop for example.
liliainterfrutices · 05/03/2022 18:31

I don’t at all expect kids to know or especially care that we’re giving up our time. But if someone bringing their child along was so worrying for your son, it’s good that he’s been able to think through why that might be necessary. And fair play to him for doing so.

bombytomy · 05/03/2022 18:31

@TheMerrickBoy

The argument that students are customers paying for a service is more damaging to students than it is to anyone else - the obvious issue is you can't pay anyone to 'do a degree to you': whoever pays for it, the student has to do work. The increasing resistance to this idea is a huge issue, and if this 17 year old is thinking about his degree like this, that's going to harm his chances more than anything about his background or context.
Hear hear...
NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 05/03/2022 18:33

All of you academics need to really wake up to the fact that kids don’t know you’re giving up your time.

We're not. It's part of our job.

From what some other academics are posting, maybe it's not part of the job in some universities. I find that surprising, but I would worry that those universities rely too much on marketing staff to present details of courses, which is asking for trouble.

Why would they?

I think this is a valid question. But even if they did know, it's not their responsibility and it shouldn't change their expectations. If academics have an issue with covering open days, it's a matter between them and the instituition. Airing it in front of students, or prospective students, is unprofessional and is likely to be counterproductive.

BobbinHood · 05/03/2022 18:35

Saturday or not it’s unprofessional to allow it to happen twice and to be causing difficulties at the day.

grapewines · 05/03/2022 18:35

@TheMerrickBoy

The argument that students are customers paying for a service is more damaging to students than it is to anyone else - the obvious issue is you can't pay anyone to 'do a degree to you': whoever pays for it, the student has to do work. The increasing resistance to this idea is a huge issue, and if this 17 year old is thinking about his degree like this, that's going to harm his chances more than anything about his background or context.
Well said.
cherryonthecakes · 05/03/2022 18:37

People on this forum regularly use the customer analogy for private schools. Is that inappropriate too?

Original poster
Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 18:37

I just asked him, he said he would assume it’s like parents evening at school.

OP posts:
TheMerrickBoy · 05/03/2022 18:39

@cherryonthecakes

People on this forum regularly use the customer analogy for private schools. Is that inappropriate too?
I would think so, yes - you're buying some kind of experience that you want, maybe, and it's a better use of the term because people do actually pay the fees, as opposed to owing the money to the tax-payer, but if a child in private school (and his/her parents) think they've done the job by handing over the money, that's incorrect.