Applying to Oxbridge for 2023 intake

[riverpebbles]

Not sure if there is already a thread on this? My son is hoping to apply to Cambridge for Computer Science for October 2023 start.

panda given the emphasis that Cambridge places on grades, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more independent DCs having a punt at Oxford than there are at Cambridge. Very different selection processes too. I'm not clear that you can safely assume that the numbers are the same at the two universities.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/ug_admissions_statistics_2020_cycle.pdf

For ease of reference. The 2020 stats.

So (please can a mathsy person correct if necessary?) I make that, for 2020:

53% of comprehensive applications convert to an acceptance
85% of grammar applications and
64% of independent applications.

Not convinced I've done that accurately though :)

Quite interesting numbers if I have, however and consistent with what I said above.

Also, I don't think it's possible to say "grammar school kids are brighter". I live in an area where thousands of kids sit for some the top grammars in the country (Tiffin Girls and Boys and Wilson's, plus another one in Merton I can't remember). Its a very similar cohort sitting the grammar 11 plus exams as the ones sitting for independents such as Kingston Grammar (which confusingly is an independent), KIngs Wimbledon, Hampton, Putney or Wimbledon High etc. Families take a scattergun approach because all these schools have different exam formats and with over 1000 applying for maybe 100 places at all these schools, there can be no certainties for anyone. Some will get into Tiffin but not one of the independents with comparable results, and vice versa. It's far from an exact science and a lot depends on the day and also different children responding better to different types of exam. A bit like Oxbridge really!

However, I can see in perhaps more rural places where grammar schools still exist why people might opt for a local independent school (if indeed there is one locally) if their child doesn't get into the local grammar. I've heard of this in Buckinghamshire and some parts of Kent? I think London is quite different in this sense. The top independents are still more competitive than the grammars (slightly).

But there's not many grammar areas left surely? Kent, Bucks, parts of Merseyside, parts of Devon (Dorset), Lincolnshire? Plus several in London with no catchment areas (the Tiffins and Wilson's in south London and QEB and Latymer School in north London).

Oh well first correction already: I used the three year 2018 - 2020 numbers.

goodbyestranger - no there's not a 50-80% acceptance rate for anyone or anything at Cambridge. If only!

I'll try and find the stats.

The 2020 Cambridge numbers seem to be:

21.6% Comprehensive
28.5% Grammar
25.8% Independent

The percentages I used above were the relative success rates: applications, so a different percentage to the ones in this post. That was based on the numbers in the official statistics. Seems very high for grammars but the three year table does say 224 applications converting to 190 acceptances, which is admittedly very striking.

You have to mash all those percentages together and then fiddle around, since the applicants from each type of school are competing against all applicants not just those from their own sector.

There are a number of superselective grammars outside London.

I think the argument about the relative competitiveness between London grammars and independents has been had before. Not sure the conclusion was the same as yours but there was a lorra lorra anecdote flying around :)

These are stats for 2019 (didn't bother with 2020 as it probably wasn't a representative year). Overall, 8,470 applications from the 'home maintained sector', but within that -

Comps - 4,642 applied - 1,219 offers

Grammars - 2,121 applied - 728 offers

(plus the stats for sixth form colleges and FE colleges)

Then for Independents - 3,295 applied - 999 offers

So on the face of it (my maths is terrible so can't work it out exactly) - around a third of grammar school and independent candidates received offers (roughly); whereas for comps the ratio was slightly lower? The ratio for FE colleges lower still?

But anyway, this table shows the different offer ratios for the different types of schools within the 'home maintained sector' with grammar schools as a distinct group. No academies.

I think it's worth looking at offer ratios rather than actual admission rates because O and C can only make offers - they can't control whether a student actually goes in to get the grades.

224 v 190 that you are referring to is the number of schools not the number of applications. So in the period 224 grammar schools had one or more students apply and 190 of those schools had one or more pupils gain the offer of a place.

Thank you Scooby that did look very odd. Very rookie error! :)

Surely the actual number of students actually making the grade and attending the uni is the key thing? Especially since Cambridge makes calculated over offers. Oxford does so to a far lesser extent.

Well, I think if you're considering contextualisation, it's the offer rates that matter because that's the only thing thing Cambridge can actually control - ie trying to aim for equal offer rates across all the school types. Whether students go on to achieve the offer (most do) grades or decide to take up the place (most will) is ultimately, not something they have any control over or input into. They can only make their offers and 'over offer' slightly based on whatever algorithms they have for the pattern of uptake of places over the years for the different subjects.

Having not looked at the small print with Cambridge's statistics, simply thought wow, I might steer away from further critiques :) But what I said about the Oxford statistics is still stands, by contrast.

panda Cambridge offers twice as many places for Maths as it has available. Maths is unusual admittedly but Cambridge also offers on a 'challenge' basis, so they make offers more freely but put an exceptionally high tariff on some (not sure of the proportion of such offers to normal ones). Oxford by contrast sticks to standard offers across the board and is much tighter in making them. If you look at the Cambridge numbers you'll see a big gulf between offers and 'acceptances'.

I'm wary of delving into those statistics for obvious reasons but when you say most make the grades then yes, most do but it looks as if 14% of the comprehensive offerees don't make the grade, which is a big over offer (and that's 2020, so CAGs).

You're right, 2019 is the year to look at. The percentage there missing grades at Cambridge is much higher. Oxford is much higher than I thought, but much lower than Cambridge.

I think it's only a few humanities subjects at O that make offers at AAA though, goodbye? History and Classics and maybe a few others? At C, the standard humanities offer is A star A A, so not wildly different and it's only in very rare cases (eg. a very borderline candidate from a high-performing independent) that they might up the offer to 2 x A star A. I saw a list for DC subject and I think that happened once in about three years.

I think on my DC course which was a sort of humanities one, they offered to 100 to fill 90 places (something like that).

But yes, maths at C is another matter as they offer double to the amount of places they have as 50% don't get through STEP. Seems very harsh to me.

I'd have to check the stats again but I think around 40% of those actually admitted to C have achieved 3 A stars on results day and around that percentage again have 2 A stars A. So even if they achieve the standard offer if A star A A, that's the bottom 20% of the cohort (based just on A level results obviously, I don't mean ability)!

At O, only a very small percentage of students actually there 'only' got AAA, despite the fact this is the standard offer in some subjects.

I am still being very distracted by my puppy but the numbers for Cambridge in 2019 suggest - allowing for puppy bashing me and gnawing me - that 30% of comprehensive offer holders don't make it. Fully prepared indeed expect to be corrected.

Much lower at Oxford.

Cambridge has a nasty habit of sometimes specifying which subject the A needs to be in. So it's not merely upping the numbers of A. They mix it up.

I've been nicked by the A star fairy. Both those As should read A star.

Parts of Yorkshire have them I think.

Dorset is Dorset (and there are grammars in Dorset) and Devon is Devon (there are even more grammars in Devon too).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England

There you go.

@Malbecfan we got the EPQ score, somewhere between 45-50: I won't say exactly where. We're happy 🙂

@bettbburg interesting - well done DC! Ours are all marked out of 100. My highest was 97, lowest was 68, however, these could be altered by the board...

My DC must have done a different board for EPQ because I'm sure they were marked out of 54? For an A star, I seem to remember they had to get at least 52 -which seems very high - can this be right? Also, part of the marks were for a presentation of the finished thing that they had to do to peers, EPQ teachers and examiners. They had to fit it into 10 mins max, if I remember rightly. All the sources had to be analysed for 'reliability'. They were massive pieces of work - 15,000 words and hundreds of 'reliability analysed' sources. Must take ages for teachers to read!