Applying to Oxbridge for 2023 intake

[riverpebbles]

Not sure if there is already a thread on this? My son is hoping to apply to Cambridge for Computer Science for October 2023 start.

@riverpebbles I'm no expert but our advice was that they should aim for the vast majority of GCSEs to be 8s and 9s, and as long as that's the overall grade profile, it should be ok. But I'm also guessing that the more high grades the better, if it got to the point of them choosing between two candidates...
@OxbridgeHopeful my son is hoping to apply for a choral scholarship (C); he also playes the organ but doesn't want to be an organist! Interesting that organ scholarship auditions happen first, before UCAs deadkine - the reverse is true for choral, as far as I know and they are only awarded after academic places have been offered

Can I join - DS is hoping to apply for PPE at Oxford.

@riverpebbles - it's very early to have predictions. We'll get an indication for DS at the end of this term but no predictions until the end of the summer term.

[quote HoneyMobster]@riverpebbles - it's very early to have predictions. We'll get an indication for DS at the end of this term but no predictions until the end of the summer term.[/quote]
Quite right, apologies. Not official predictions. Indications.

@HoneyMobster - With DS his school is similar with predicted grades. I spoke to the Head of 6th Form this week and it looks like DS is the only thinking of apply to Oxford (very small 6th form). Summer exams are straight after half term and they are hoping to get his predicted grades to him before the Oxford Open Days - I suspect he will be fine in 2 subjects, but I'm not sure about the other.

Similar @ThinkForAMinute .

DS is taking 4. I think 2 of his subjects are on track for A** star predictions but he needs to turn at least one of the likely As into another A star to be a competitive applicant.

[quote usedtobeboss3]@riverpebbles I'm no expert but our advice was that they should aim for the vast majority of GCSEs to be 8s and 9s, and as long as that's the overall grade profile, it should be ok. But I'm also guessing that the more high grades the better, if it got to the point of them choosing between two candidates...
@OxbridgeHopeful my son is hoping to apply for a choral scholarship (C); he also playes the organ but doesn't want to be an organist! Interesting that organ scholarship auditions happen first, before UCAs deadkine - the reverse is true for choral, as far as I know and they are only awarded after academic places have been offered[/quote]
The organ scholar process is wildly different - most dramatically in that they can and are encouraged to do applications to multiple colleges and even I think both O and C (at least the latter was the case relatively recently - haven’t checked current status). It is a great angle, but only if one wants to be an organist :-). The commitment between colleges is very variable and has to be looked at carefully, particularly when choosing what subject is practical to do alongside.

@riverpebbles

Thank you all.

Another general query - my son did not get straight 9s on his GCSEs (mostly 8s but 3 x 8s) but is predicted 3 A*s. How important are the GCSE grades, would you say?

I don't know how Cambridge view GCSE grades, it's commonly thought that Oxford pay more attention to them than Cambridge does. Oxford class 9s and 8s as the same. They say that 'successful applicants typically have a high proportion of 7s 8s and 9s' and the grades are contextualised by school performance.

DD has an offer to study Medicine at Oxford this year. In normal years there would be equal weight on GCSEs and BMAT (the admissions test) but they have confirmed they disregarded GCSEs and went on contextualised BMAT.

For 2023 cohort I think admissions test will be similarly regarded, strong GCSEs are too common to distinguish a candidate because of the grade inflation.

I started the same thread this time last year and have learnt so much a long the way about the Uni process. DD is my first born at a state college and I had no idea of the process. Things I have learnt

1. It is arduous process and can take its toll with many rejected after all the effort, be prepared for that. Its ok and all will work out for them in the end.

1. DD did not have a set of perfect GCSEs couple of 9s and 8s the rest 7s and 6s. She was still short listed for interview (HSPS at C) but rejected post interview. Many DC with straight 9s and A* predictions didnt get interviewed.

1. Be mindful of other options, if choosing very competitive Unis there is a chance they could have more than one rejection out of their 5 choices.

1. For DD at C for HSPS I so wish we had looked at the stats and chosen a college based on the need to submit written work and a lower applicant rate. DD chose Clare one of the more over subscribed Colleges which was a mistake, they also didnt ask for written work which is a strong point of DDs so it came down to interview solely.

1. Try and visit other potential Unis if possible. Durham always features heavily on here but after a visit last summer DD didnt like it. I am sure she would have put it as an option of we had not been to look around. It is often worth putting in the leg work / research.

1. Research Unis and the modules that they offer, it can vary heavily from place to place.

There are many other fantastic Unis with things that Oxbridge do not offer. DD has ended up firming Bath for Politics and IR with a placement year in her 3rd year which will give her the opportunity to gain valuable work experience. I would have been thrilled if she had got into C but honestly now it seems like a distant memory and she is very excited for September. Good luck to you all!!

That’s right for C choral scholarships @usedtobeboss3 but the opposite for O where you apply before you get an academic place.

AFAIK C is traditionally more bothered about GCSE results than O but with all the disruptions of recent years, I think less attention is paid to them at the moment.

(I have DD at O studying Classics, DS at C studying engineering, and DD with an offer for music + choral scholarship at O.)

DS is at a grammar up north, they seem to have a few that get into Oxford and Cambridge every year. The university applications process seems to have started for them this week with a trip to the UCAS convention in Manchester. DS was amused that Dundee would give him £2k just for being English, but otherwise said it wasn’t a particularly useful trip out other than to get prospectuses which he could have read online anyway. Currently thinking Oxford, St A’s, Durham, York and Lancaster for physics.
Am silently wondering though if his 5’s in English Language and Literature will go against him despite 9’s in everything else.

@OnePlusOneEquals my DS has an A in English and a B in RS as his only non-STEM GCSEs and he’s studying Engineering at C. They are very used to non-literary science candidates.

Thanks @pantjog an A in English and a B is RS are still very high results though - a 5 is a C equivalent I think. He did get 9’s in geography and German though…but I think this cohorts gcse results won’t be viewed as strongly as they may have been in previous years.

[quote Carolvoldemart]@OxbridgeHopeful
DD’s BF is an organ scholar at Oxford.

I suggest you and your DS have a good look at the different amounts of commitment at the different colleges. There’s quite a wide range. And scrutinise those course descriptions to see if you can narrow things down. Eg You can’t do pure physics at C, it’s Natural Sciences. It and engineering have a reputation for a heavy workload, perhaps not the easiest to combine with an organ scholarship— but then again some brilliant individuals manage to pack a lot in.

DD’s BF is studying music, but again look at the courses at the two places because they are quite different.

Maths parents may be on soon, but my impression is that maths at Cambridge is for the genuinely outstanding only — the STEP requirement trips up quite a few candidates at the last hurdle, unfortunately.[/quote]
You can do pure physics in C. It is in the maths department and called "MATHEMATICS WITH PHYSICS"

To the person whose DC was considering an organ scholarship: look very very carefully at the commitment each college requires. It does vary between colleges, but I'm not sure that a scientist will have sufficient time to do the scholarship justice.

I know of 2 organ scholars. One was a year older than my DD. They played in the same music group for years. He goto the scholarship from a C college but they asked him to work as a sub-organist in a cathedral for a year before going up. So he ended up starting at the same time as DD. The other was in the year below DD and was one of her college children. She's not sure why she ended up with him as although she's a good performer, she's a scientist. Maybe having a parent as a music teacher was the requisite qualification...?

DD's college has a well-regarded chapel choir. DD auditioned for it and was successful but due to rowing duties and the demands of her course, she wasn't able to offer the commitment they required. The Director of Music arranged for her to audition at another college which has fewer services and she has been singing there for the last 3.5 years.

As far as the whole London/Oxbridge question goes, DD applied for both Cambridge and Imperial. Imperial's interview came first and they assured her that they loved her and would give her a competitive offer. It turned out to be the same grades as the Cambridge offer, but Cambridge was less fussy about which subjects had to be A*. DD decided on balance that it would be cheaper to live in Cambridge in college accommodation and rejected Imperial. She graduated last summer and is now back there studying for a PhD and supervising 1st year scientists.

Excellent to see the this years candidates getting enthused. My daughter has an offer for MFL at O deferred until 2023 so happy to try and answer questions if any of your DC are MFL candidates. My son is in his first year at O reading Geography so can chip in on that too.

I'd also second what @TangoWhiskyAlphaTango said about making sure your DC have other Unis they are as enthusiastic about so eggs aren't all in one basket. Our DC also spent time tootling around the country visiting all 5 options and each had at least two alternatives they'd have been keen to go to.

My ds has been quite active on unifrog - it seems like a very useful tool.

Can I join you? DD hoping to apply to O for English. She's just starting to research for her EPQ, does anyone know how the EPQs are looked on by O? I think she would do it anyway as it's great writing experience but I do worry that it takes focus off her actual A-levels.

@DTJ I teach the EPQ. Oxford doesn't seem particularly interested in them, unfortunately for me. However, the skills the EP covers are invaluable and your DD's research could prove invaluable when writing her personal statement. Both my DDs did an EPQ. Both applied to C for NatSci. One was successful, the other was interviewed then rejected. Both freely admit that the EPQ gave them a flying start to research, source analysis and academic writing once at uni.

@juja any MFL specific tips would be great.

Neither DS1 or DD did EPQs but they both produced an extended essay linked to the subjects they applied for (very close in style and length to an EPQ). The process of researching and writing them proved really helpful and both talked about them in both their personal statements and at Oxford interviews.

DS2 is doing one as well in addition to 4 A Levels and his subject matter looks really interesting.

@Thedogisdrivingmemad

Some MFL tips from DD's experience applying to O in 2021: (apologies for clogging up the thread for those not interested in MFL)
health warning each DC's experience will vary

1. The Schaums grammar books helped prepare for the MLAT - as DD found the test a step up from that required for A Level
2. The LAT is a bit like verbal reasoning tests - think of it as a puzzle
3. There are lots of past papers - and some answer papers: e.g. see weblearn.ox.ac.uk/portal/site/:humdiv:modlang:mlat-tests

Suggest DC asks their teachers to mark the papers that there aren't answers for and keep back one or two past papers until just before the tests to do in a timed setting.

1. Some more tips on MLAT here: www.mytutor.co.uk/blog/tackling-the-mlat/#3
2. Read several books in your target language that aren't on the A Level syllabus and if taking an ab initio language read some of that literature in translation - but don't list books you haven't read properly - see 9 below.
3. Last year Queens College provided one book in translation for free to state school pupils and asked you to write a book review which they then gave feedback on. They may do different things each year - sorry I don't know much as it came via school. may have been via the school signing up to; Adventures on the Bookshelf (An OU blog page) which also has lots of resources
4. Watch some YouTube videos on the interview process - the official Oxford Uni video diaries by the St Hilda's tutor Helen Swift are good. bookshelf.mml.ox.ac.uk/2013/11/25/an-admissions-interviewer-speaks-out/

Also lots more resources on O interviews on all subjects here: www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/interviews

1. Learn some basic words and phrases in their ab initio language to show an interest (if relevant)
2. There were three key sections to DD's interviews (may well vary college to college - DD was interviewed by two colleges a week apart)-

(i) discussing a piece of literature in the language you were being interviewed in - this was put up on the Teams screen - not provided in advance. If ab initio it was also in translation (ii) quite a detailed grilling on one of the books DD listed in the PS (iii) Questions on why study literature and the advantages and disadvantages of translation. This was done in her target language which was a surprise as she has expected the conversation in the language to be more chatty, i.e. "why would you like to study this" but the conversation was primarily academic. 10.There is a good list of questions on the OU website. www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/interviews#content-tab--6 11. Practice being interviewed on Teams / in person depending on what they opt for this year. You don't need a subject expert - you / your DC can collate a list of questions off various websites and then ask them yourself or find a willing friend. School gave her one mock interview - helpful but the real interviews were harder. 12. Think from now onwards about written work marked in school to submit in November - good to submit one done under timed conditions. 13. ~92% of MLAT applicants are interviewed and ~38% chance of an offer so do give it a go. Whatever the outcome the preparation will help with A Levels. 14. Read the MFL Admissions feedback: www.merton.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/inline-files/Modern%20Languages%20Admissions%20Feedback%20Information%202021.pdf

Good Luck!

Reading with interest.

My son is applying to Oxford to read physics. It’s all gearing up at school with UCAS convention and meetings about the PAT. We have got him a tutor (who is a recent graduate of Oxford) who is proving invaluable.

I’m not sure my sanity will hold out for another year.

Thank you Juja! Fantastic and very helpful.