Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

@AlexaShutUp part time jobs are great. They show commitment, patience and time management. Care home job would be good too though, for her to see how HCAs work and learn about care. My own DD worked at Waitrose during 6th form snd then did HCA work in both a care home and a hospital during the summer and pandemic height. She said it's made her a better Med student. She values those HCAs so much.

So tough decision, which I've not helped at all 😂.

[quote mumsneedwine]@AlexaShutUp part time jobs are great. They show commitment, patience and time management. Care home job would be good too though, for her to see how HCAs work and learn about care. My own DD worked at Waitrose during 6th form snd then did HCA work in both a care home and a hospital during the summer and pandemic height. She said it's made her a better Med student. She values those HCAs so much.

So tough decision, which I've not helped at all 😂. [/quote]
Thanks @mumsneedwine.

Her original plan had been to do both, but time is an issue - she also tutors, does performing arts and has quite a busy social life so it's hard to fit everything in. The care home job would actually pay twice as well as her cafe job, but she's too attached to the cafe, her colleagues and her customers to part from it! For now, at least! Maybe she'll be able to do some work at the care home next year....

@AlexaShutUp sounds like she's got it sorted. The cafe will be great experience, med schools love jobs that deal with the public. It's what they are going to be trained to do.
Grades first, ace those entrance exams and anything on top is a big bonus.

[quote mumsneedwine]@AlexaShutUp sounds like she's got it sorted. The cafe will be great experience, med schools love jobs that deal with the public. It's what they are going to be trained to do.
Grades first, ace those entrance exams and anything on top is a big bonus. [/quote]
Thanks @mumsneedwine, that's encouraging.

She seems to be doing well in her A-levels so far and is currently predicted A*s in everything, but I suspect that's off the back of her GCSE results more than anything. She's well aware of the need not to get complacent.

One of the biggest challenges might be finding the time to practice for the entrance tests. She has started looking at this but I think they still feel like quite a long way away at the moment. I'm conscious they'll come round super quick!

Would you suggest mentioning the part time job in the personal statement? I'm aware that they don't encourage much reference to extracurricular stuff, more the supercurricular, so just wondered where that might fit in.

It depends where she applies. Nearly half the medical schools don't read the PS, Cambridge don't care about work experience, just super curriculars, but there is the SAQ for Cambridge and also most applicants (80%) get an interview, so have the opportunity to talk about their passion.

@AlexaShutUp as Monkey says, most don't read the PS. But she should bring it up at interview, using examples for when she's had a difficult situation. Gives lots of things to talk about from a real world perspective. If MMIs are back she'll find that having experience of talking to strangers very useful.
UCAT prep only needs to start after A levels. Medify and UCAT practice papers for a month - 6 weeks is what most do. And they book (1001 UCAT questions I think it's called).

I have a 4th year DD medic at Cardiff and pop into the medicine threads every so often. My DD had a cafe job while at school and found that there were things from it that she could talk about in her interviews.

She did an EPQ, but it wasn't medicine related (about language learning). I don't think it helped at interview or reducing offer grades but did keep her writing skills up. She has had to do several assessed pieces of course work with various types of research, so I think the EPQ can be useful in that way - and also the presentation part as they have to present things too.

My dsd applying 2023.
Its already stressful... She has part time job as waitress, done multiple work experience, one linked directly to her EPQ, Hhas a medsoc and ucat club at school and is doing community service teaching primary age sport in under privileged local school.... And breathe...
She hates chemistry alevel and currently at a b... I've got her a tutor but honestly she finds it so hard to motivate for a subject she hates.
She knows only she can do it but it is hard to know how much nagging I should do

Hi @Theredjellybean and welcome to the thread. It is tough without a doubt. They are expected to get to grips with the leap in intensity of A Level courses whilst making sure they have all the other things in place. It is even harder if your DSD really isn't enjoying Chemistry. I wouldn't nag as I believe that the motivation has to come from within or they are never going to be happy in a med school environment. However, I think a gentle reality check chat might help.The harsh reality is that, even with a brilliant application, if you can't hit the offer grades then you are not going to Med School. In a normal year, approximately 40% of offer holders miss their grades. Your DSD needs to to find her motivation and get to grips with the A Level Chemistry course now as it accelerates quickly and becomes more difficult. Wishing all the best.

@Theredjellybean

My dsd applying 2023. Its already stressful... She has part time job as waitress, done multiple work experience, one linked directly to her EPQ, Hhas a medsoc and ucat club at school and is doing community service teaching primary age sport in under privileged local school.... And breathe... She hates chemistry alevel and currently at a b... I've got her a tutor but honestly she finds it so hard to motivate for a subject she hates. She knows only she can do it but it is hard to know how much nagging I should do

Isn't chemistry pretty central to the study of medicine? I didn't go down the science route myself so might be mistaken.

Not wanting to be negative at all as it sounds like your dd is really motivated and hardworking, and clearly has her act together with regard to work experience, volunteering etc, but is she sure that medicine is for her if she hates one of the most central subjects? Would she actually enjoy studying it if that's the case?

I don't think you have to love Chemistry to study Medicine. I think the emphasis of it for Med is that it is a rigorous subject and getting a good grade in it shows application. I remember at the start of the A Level course, my DS's teacher saying that everyone will reach a point in A Level Chemistry that they will find difficult and that's fine, the important thing is to work through that. My DS didn't love Chemistry and got an A star through application. You just need the tenacity to get to grips with it and get a good A Level. This is more about attitude to obstacles than anything.

Fair enough @opoponax. I don't actually claim to know much about what is involved in the study of medicine, I just see that chemistry seems to be the subject that is consistently required!

Yes it is one of the important A Levels @AlexaShutUp but my sense was more that it is a good gauge of rigour and application rather than it being a huge element of the Med degree. However, even if that is the case, I would say that attitude to subjects can change greatly when they get into the thick of the subject. My DS started his A Level courses loving Biology, liking Maths (because he found it easy) and not sure at all how much he would like Chemistry as it was very different from GCSE. By the end of his A Levels, he still loved Biology, had grown to (almost) love Chemistry and was quite bored with Maths (probably because he should and would have been doing Further Maths in a non-med scenario). I think a lot can change over those two years.

I am a doctor.. I hated chemistry and had same issues applying myself to a level.
At med school I really could not see what use it was..
Biology was far more useful.
She is absolutely committed to medicine.. I don't think a student disliking a part of a course is really an indicator they might not be suited.

@Theredjellybean I would advise your DD to look into switching from Chemistry to Psychology (if she is doing Biology and Maths). Although Chemistry is the most often required A level there are about 12 which don't require it. The amount of chemistry in the course varies massively, at St Andrews, where DS1 is, it is very Chemistry heavy, but they require Chemistry, and he loves it. At Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds, Lancaster and many others they don't require it. I think Plymouth requires Biology, but not Chemistry. I can link to the list on TSR so you could see how many doors that choice would close.

DS's GF got all 8/9 at GCSE and was very diligent and interested, but got a D for Chemistry A level so is now doing nursing instead of medicine. If I had known her earlier I would have advised her to switch.

The most important thing is getting AAA, although I think Sheffield accepts a B in Chemistry with an A/A* in EPQ but others are less flexible about where the B can be.

It was about this time last year that DS2 realised he wanted to do medicine, but he was doing double maths, Physics and PE. He dropped F Maths and took up an EPQ and is doing Chemistry Y12 as a Y13. He has now realised that he could have switched straight into Y12 Chemistry, so would have been doing Chemistry A level this year and would have a much wider choices of places he could apply to. Catching up with 1 term of another course is perfectly possible.

I think struggling with a subject you don't enjoy and are not doing well in is worse than working to catch up on a subject you enjoy. And it doesn't have to by psychology, if she is doing Maths, it could be Biology, Maths and Drama, Art or English.....

Most medicine degree courses include little or no chemistry. (It's likely to be different in the 3+3 programmes: Cambridge, Oxford & St Andrews, where the first 3 years form a separate medical sciences degree.)

There are two main reasons why so many medical schools require chemistry A-Level. One is that understanding some aspects of medical physiology (e.g. arterial blood gases, serum electrolytes) is more straightforward if you have an understanding of chemical principles. On that basis though, understanding some topics (relationship between pressures and forces in the respiratory and cardiovascular systems, mechanics of joints, conversion of energy in sensory organs, etc.) really benefits from prior study of physics, but no medical schools require physics A-Level.

The second reason, though, is largely historical. Chemistry is seen as a particularly "difficult" A-Level and it is assumed that ability to get a good grade in it predicts performance at medical school. This is based on evidence from several decades ago. A-Levels (and medicine degrees) are very different now from how they were when the research was conducted, and more recent evidence doesn't demonstrate a connection between chemistry A-Level performance specifically (as opposed to A-Level performance in general) and medical school performance.

Having said that, there is an ongoing issue with chemistry A-Level grade boundaries being set higher than would be expected from how they are set for other subjects. So chemistry is still regarded as "hard" and therefore favoured by some medical school admissions committees.

So not enjoying chemistry A-Level doesn't mean a student won't enjoy studying medicine. The bigger issue is gaining a grade A in a subject you don't enjoy studying.

Thank you for advice, she's already doing psychology and loves it, working easily at A *
She is doing biology and doing ok
Maths was definitely not an option and phy or chemistry was left.
She thinks chemistry opened more choices.
She's perfectly able just struggling to motivate herself.
She has overcome a serious life threatening illness, spent a Yr in hospital then pandemic so has had very disrupted education. Some of the lack of focus is I think her spending time doing stuff she missed out on... Tictok and you tube!

@Theredjellybean

Thank you for advice, she's already doing psychology and loves it, working easily at A * She is doing biology and doing ok Maths was definitely not an option and phy or chemistry was left. She thinks chemistry opened more choices. She's perfectly able just struggling to motivate herself. She has overcome a serious life threatening illness, spent a Yr in hospital then pandemic so has had very disrupted education. Some of the lack of focus is I think her spending time doing stuff she missed out on... Tictok and you tube!

Can't really blame her for wanting to catch up on normal teenage stuff. It sounds like she is doing brilliantly after all that she has been through!

@Theredjellybean, it does sound like she has had an awful time.

Just so you know, if she switched Chemistry for anything else with a confident A, she could still apply to:

Southampton
Manchester
Plymouth
Sheffield
Kent and Medway
Leicester
Keele
Lancaster
UEA
Newcastle

It is what I would be encouraging my child to do - switch to a subject she will enjoy.

.... that was for Biology, Psychology and anything else.

That's so interesting as three of her current favourites on that list.
I'll have a really sensible chat with her and chemistry teachers this week about the situation.
Thank you again.

@Theredjellybean I am pretty confident the list is still right, but obviously you should check directly the relevant medical school websites, but there is a general strongly held perception that they want Bio, Chem and Maths which is outdated! It must be disheartening to plug away at a subject you can't enjoy.

For Newcastle you don't even need science A levels anymore 😊

@mumsneedwine

For Newcastle you don't even need science A levels anymore 😊

They use UCAT instead to check that you have the right sort of brain to do well in medical school exams!

I hope you get it sorted @Theredjellybean. Knowing more of the background, it seems like your DSD has been through quite enough without having to push on with a subject she hates if it can be avoided. It sounds like she is doing great. I think there is a gulf of difference between not loving a subject and hating it. A Levels shouldn't be just an endurance test and of course the UCAT is enough to gauge whether you have the right type of brain for Medicine.

We've got a different issue going on in that DD loves her sciences and her school is suggesting that she would be very suited to a 3+3 Medicine course. She is attracted to the academic rigour of it (and enjoys essays!) but really wants early clinical too and is quite confused by it all at the minute. Would love to hear from anyone whose DC has or has had a similar dilemma.