Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne - thank you very much for your advice. I assumed that they couldn't apply to Medicine this September if they don't get AAA as their predicted grades from school in July (since I could only see about 3 universities that accept A levels lower than AAA). I think we don't fully understand the process. Yes more research is required.

@Cratos there are very few medical schools which don't look at predictions - Cardiff don't use them and this year Liverpool didn't, but most do and I would not choose to apply to either of those as Cardiff have a very opaque shortlisting process and Liverpool has a dreadful offer to interview ratio. You should try hard to get the school to predict AAA as it will make his options wider. UCAS advice is that the UCAS predictions should be ok probiotic but achievable.

If he meets widening participation criteria it is viable to apply with lower predictions.

there are very few medical schools which don't look at predictions - Cardiff don't use them and this year Liverpool didn't, but most do

Aston doesn't. Keele doesn't. Kent & Medway doesn't. I don't think Sunderland does. I don't have time to look up all the others.

Yes, but a significant majority do and all of those ones are slightly odd - Keele and Sunderland require a lot of work experience, Kent & Medway and Aston really focus on WP, so it is worth trying quite hard to get at least AAA predictions as there are enough hoops to jump through without having that one too. Obviously most people will have to be able to actually get the AAA to meet any offers.

@Monkey2001 - thank you very much for your advice. We are based in Hampshire. He doesn't meet widening participation criteria. He doesn't have much time left to change his teachers' opinion. This is the last month of school before predictions are released. However he will try. What I understand from school communication is that predicted grades usually match Summer progress grades. But he is under the impression that predicted grades will not be lower than year end exam results.

@Cratos I'd suggest making sure the school know he wants to apply for medicine. His progress report is unlikely to be his UCAS grades ! So, if he's capable of AAB or ABB then a sensible school will give AAA on UCAS. Because, predicted grades are not always right, and one grade difference on a subject is easy to make up by next June for a motivated student.
It's a bit of a game I'm afraid. Might not be right but it's what a lot of schools do, so you have to join in otherwise your students are disadvantaged.
However, AAB is enough for Anglia Ruskin, Sunderland, Medway and Newcastle if contextual (lots of people are surprised to find they are). Also Bristol if on their WP list of schools.

@Cratos predicted UCAS grades often come from FFtrust grades, which are calculated from GCSEs. Might be what school meant.

@mumsneedwine - thank you for your advice. You are right. We need to make sure all his teachers are aware that he wants to apply to medicine.
What does WP stand for ?

I think it means Widening participation WP. I understand now.

@Cratos 😊 it can be very wide at some Unis ! Send me a message if you'd like some advice about WP opportunities.

Hi All,
Hope you are well. My DS had his Progress Review Meeting with his teacher. His teacher implied that he is likely to get an A as his predicted grade. So far he did (Autumn A/B, Spring A, Summer A and end of year exam result A). His teacher thinks that it is difficult to achieve an A* with Biology since the subject is too wide etc. Apprarently my DS was asked if he would apply to Oxford or not.
What is your view on this ?
Thank you

@Cratos it is good that predictions are looking safer. Oxford is A*AA but I don't think they look at predictions. It is one of the most competitive medical schools to get into and the interviews are more science based than non-Oxbridge. The course structure at Oxbridge is also different from others - very little patient contact in the first 3 years and heavily academic, so it depends on whether that appeals. You have needed all 8/9 at GCSE in the past, but not clear whether they are still using GCSEs, but need to do well in the BMAT to secure an interview. The best thing about applying to Oxford is that you know you will get a decision in early January! He should not choose because he thinks it is perceived as prestigious, but because the style of the course suits him.

@Monkey2001 thank you for your response and advice. He will not apply to Oxford since the style of the course is not right for him as you mentioned and also I can see other students who would do much better with an Oxbridge application. I think the teacher asked since I have a feeling that they may be keeping A predicted grades for those who are interested in applying to Oxbridge. I was hoping Biology teacher might give him A since his performance has been more consistent throughout the year with Biology than any other subjects. It would be nice to get AAA predicted grades so that we can at least have 1 more ambitious option. But apparently it is difficult to achieve A for Biology. He is finishing his 4th A level language this year so we will hear about the result on 15th of August. I imagine if his language A level grade is an A and if better than his Math predicted grade (might be B) hopefully he can still apply to medicine.

@Cratos - This is one of the big problems with predicted grades. Some schools will predict an A* if it is theoretically achievable and the student needs it to be eligible for an interview at one of their choices. Other schools won't. I have got into the habit of assuming anyone with three A-star predictions must have applied to Exeter. It's no indication at all that they are likely to get three A-stars.

Funny about the reasons for not predicting A-star for biology. I used to talk to lots of teachers about the old human biology A-Level, which was a better preparation for medicine than biology. They said they wouldn't enter students for it because it was harder to get an A in than biology.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne It seems like the mumsnet system removed Star signs from my post. I cannot see them on my labtop screen anymore. But you guessed what I mean. I was talking about A star Biology and A star AA predicted grades. Yes I am struggling with the concept of predicted grades (still) since they seem a bit subjective. Thank you for your comment.

Can I ask some of you experienced people for advice. DD just got her predicted grades for UCAS; Psychology A, Chemistry A, Biology B. It's not a huge shock as her scores in Biology have been up and down all year but she has been working really hard and was hopeful for three A's. There's no budging on the Biology, her teacher told her "go back to the UCAS website, medicine is not for you". After lots of tears and a few days to gather herself she has looked at some nursing courses and some AHP courses but she's not exactly passionate about any of them.
We talked about just working her backside off and waiting until results day, taking a gap year and then applying if she manages to get the grades. Is it silly? Will she always be scraping through? Is it better to go for something more easily attainable? It's so competitive, is it pointless if you can't make the grades easily?
Is there anywhere you can apply to with AAB? She's state educated but we don't fit into any other WP categories.

@DTJ please tell her to keep going ! There are places that accept AAB (I'll come back tomorrow with the list). How dare they stamp on her dream. If she can get AAA predictions then she can apply almost anywhere - Exeter and Oxbridge are the only ones who care about more than AAA.
Some schools really get this wrong.

@mumsneedwine thank you so much. Your post brought tears to my eyes. She has wanted this since she was 11 and has worked so hard. She has never been top of the class but always pushes herself to get better, it is just so much pressure. I was so angry that the teacher could casually say that, I had to drive to her college and pick her up as she couldn't face the train ride home sobbing. It's been a rough few days. We're just trying to decide if she should sit UKCAT this season.

I'm not sure I have the emotional stamina to get through all of this!

her teacher told her "go back to the UCAS website, medicine is not for you".

Tell her to show the teacher the University of Nottingham's medicine web page (www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Medicine-BMedSci+and+BMBS), particularly this bit: "We do not use predicted A level grades and do not score A levels, AS levels, or equivalent as part of our selection process. However, any offers made will be conditional on meeting the A level requirements." It's up to her if she wants to gamble on getting an A in biology if she genuinely thinks she's capable.

Kent & Medway is the only public UK medical school that still has a standard offer of AAB (see www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2951/entry-requirements-document-2023-entry.pdf), but many make adjusted offers on the basis of various contextual criteria (see, for example, Plymouth's listing in the entry requirements booklet).

Grrr, mumsnet just lost my answer twice!

Is her school on this list? If yes, she is eligible for ABB/AAC offer at Bristol - www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/documents/Aspiring%20State%20Schools%20and%20Colleges%20for%202022%20cycle%20England%20and%20Wales.pdf

If she is part BAME she would be eligible for Partners at Newcastle - offers BBB

Cardiff, Keele, Sunderland don't look at predictions.

Yes, she should do UCAT and come back for advice on where she is likely to get interviews when she has UCAT score. If considering Nottingham, don't neglect the Situational Judgement Test which is very heavily weighted.

There are some med schools that will consider an application with AAB predicted, though not many, and the offer is still likely to be AAA.
They are Liverpool (not considering predictions for 2022, probably the same for 2023), Nottingham (and Lincoln), Lancaster (and offer is AAB if also offer an A in EPQ), Cardiff, Kent and Canterbury (do not look at predicted grades at all and offer is AAB), Aston, Sheffield (and offer is AAB if you offer an EPQ at A with it), HYMS (and if you have an EPQ and make them your firm, this would be your offer too, but the EPQ must be at least an A), possibly Sunderland (they say "It is likely that a number of applicants achieving AAB in the subjects listed will also be admitted" but don't specifically say they will accept AAB predictions, so call and check), Keele, who use the same admission criteria as Sunderland, though their offer will likely be A*AA or AAA + A in EPQ; and I think, Leeds (they certainly award a score for lower than AAA predictions in their selection scoring, but the marks given mean you would be unlikely to make the interview cut off if these were your predictions).
Oxford also apparently say they do not look at predicted grades.

You would also need to check carefully whether your DD meets any WP criteria (they are different for each med school, so will require a plough through websites) as this lowers accepted predictions and offers made.
Double check when websites are updated for 2023 entry, as more and more seem to be saying this, and given that TAGs and CAGs may still be lingering, others may change policy

@GANFYD beat me to it 😊. Please don't let anyone put her off if it's her dream.

@DTJ tell her to focus on that UCAT. It carries so much weight when applying.

@GANFYD I am sorry that you are going through this as a family. I understand it is emotionally draining. We need more female doctors. Everybody talks about how difficult and how competitive medicine is and it is hard for us to assess and predict if our kids can cope. Perhaps the thing that is more important is whether or not they understand what the profession is about and whether or not this is what want. Saying that my husband says may people do a job they don't like in the world )-: NHS need more doctors and it is struggling. It will not be an easy career for them but it comes with emotional and financial rewards as well. I don't know what is the right thing to do either and I am finding this process challenging as well. The jump from secondary to college has been huge for our kids. I can understand why your daughter was so upset. I feel that it is too early to give up your dreams like that. I was wondering if you could speak to her senior tutor, personal tutor as well as her biology teacher and tell them she is very passionate about medicine and she is prepared to put extra effort required. Could she do an additional assignment to change the biology teacher's opinion before the UCAS deadline ? If they don't listen, there seems to be other ways of entry to medicine such as biomedical sciences. Not all universities accept this though. Brighton university states on their website "This course offers a guaranteed interview scheme with the Brighton and Sussex Medical School (BSMS) for students wishing to pursue a degree in medicine." Could she strengthen her application with additional work experience as well? All the best for all our kids.

I learnt in the last couple of days that some universities don't accept an A level completed in year 12. So my DS this year completing a language A level and this cannot go towards her medicine application. If he did it in year 13 then he could use it (if we were more clever parents and we investigated this properly or if the school warned us, that would be nice). So if he did all 4 x A level exams in Year 13 then he could use either his Math or Language A level as his 3rd A level subject. I am not sure if this is the case for only a small number of schools or for all of them. I am in the process of investigating but admission teams sometimes don't give you a clear answer since they are not sure themselves. But we were told No by UCL. Edinburgh states the same. And Queen Mary said it may count as an AS level (but he is currently doing A level exams??) I am confused since every university has slightly different expectations.