Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

@Africa2go if you look on Uni websites for their selection for interview criteria (not admissions) a lot will give you the information. Can take a bit of digging !
TSR has some good info, but always be aware anyone can post anything (some weird people like putting untruths on it every year). There is a fantastic thread where ecolier and Gandfydd give amazing advice as to where is good to apply with your stats.
Things change every year and not all the criteria is up yet for 2023 (I think the admissions staff are still recovering from this year). Monkeys spreadsheet is awesome - I'm trying to condense mine into something usable by others !
Open days are v useful to ask admissions staff direct questions about scores and the reality of your chances. I've always found them v honest.

@Africa2go for example, this is Sheffield
(who are the most transparent). So your DD is close and depends on how mid range 2700 she is 😊.

And here us the link to Notts (I am currently compiling info for some of my students )

www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/study-with-us/undergraduate/undergraduate-medicine/undergraduate-selection-process.aspx

It is important to look carefully at entry requirements to ensure you get an interview, however stronger applicants should have that bit of slack to allow them to look more closely at the courses offered.

One area where medical schools can vary quite a lot is in intercalation. This is a year our in the middle of a five year course to allow a student to study for a BSc or MSc. Some schools will not allow students to intercalate externally (ie go elsewhere) or will limit intercalations to those who are towards the top of the year group. Internal options can be quite limited, so it is worth checking whether any sound interesting.

Options can be found here: www.intercalate.co.uk/

Most students may not be interested, but for those with specific ambitions, intercalation can be a useful way of gaining knowledge, experience and contacts. We know of students who have used intercalations in emergency medicine and at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, to develop careers in wilderness/expedition medicine (a really competitive field) and in tropical medicine.

DD went to Imperial and gained a BSc in Bio Medical Engineering. After three years on a fairly hands on course, she enjoyed the switch to a research orientated academic atmosphere. She too has some specific career goals, but even if she does not achieve them understanding how some of the technology used in hospitals works will do her no harm. It also means that should she decide to go down the academic/research route the door is more easily opened.

Trouble is, what is a 'strong' candidate, as this varies by Uni. Most are now selecting solely using UCAT and so that is the definition of strong. Not much help for DD like yours @Needmoresleep who sounds a wonderful young lady but hated that exam (I'm with her !). I know many fantastic candidates with top grades in all exams who couldn't get an interview due to UCAT score.
A few left that use other criteria, but worry this might change for 2023 entry due to TAGS. Let's hope not as it allows for a spread of strong !

I really do not believe that UCAT is a foolproof way of selecting those that might make good doctors, but there it is. People complained about medical schools using personal statement - something which absolutely suited DD who is a doer. Ideally different schools would use different criteria and so fish the best from different pools. DD tells me that plenty in Bristol are not convinced that by switching from an emphasis on PS to UCAT they get a stronger cohort. Certainly observation suggests they are now picking up more from academic private schools, who used to struggle under the old approach.

However in any group there will be those that have the choice of medical schools, and that these can then look at more beyond getting in, or at least allow themselves the luxury of a stretch choice. In which case there is scope to consider other things. School advisers may not look much beyond the actual getting in, but for a student, intercalation options are worth considering. It can be bloody hard work. After a maths and electronics summer school, DD was essentially dropped into the third year of an engineering degree. Though really worthwhile for someone who wants to get into more depth or has half an eye on a career with some research content.

An unexpected side benefit is that it gives you kudos. People will say that a doctor is a doctor is a doctor, but both DD and I have come across enough Oxbridge trained doctors to to recognise that not everyone in the profession agrees. An academic intercalation gives you the advantage of both the hands on approach of most five year medical schools (DD found she was much more experienced in assignments involving teamwork) but also confirmation that you can hack some of the harder science.

Mumsneedwine, your DD intercalated. Was her experience similar?

@Needmoresleep mine has a Bachelor of Medical Science degree (graduation next week - a year late) as part of her 5 years, as Notts do it by not having a summer break in third year. So bit different. Southampton now do this too. DD did her dissertation on something to do with neonatal outcomes as she's interested in Obs/Gynae. so might be useful.
However I'd never asked a doctor where they went, until someone mentioned it on a previous thread. Turned out my mum's consultants, for many specialities and mostly at London hospitals (several private), went to Leeds, Southampton, Sheffield, UCL and UEA. One of those was also the top bod in the world in his field. So I don't agree that Uni matters for career progression - I don't think anyone cares anymore about Oxbridge.
But intercalation sounds great for extra knowledge and to expand interests and experience. Was ruled out on the grounds of cost by my DD though.

I don't ask, but my experience is that people who went to Oxbridge tend to tell you. This seems as true in medicine as elsewhere. Whilst DD certainly got strong advice from doctors when she was applying that Oxbridge would be better respected. (Though bizarrely for her Oxbridge, which does not use UCAT, might well have been easier. BMAT definitely suits some better.)

@goodbyestranger has certainly argued similar in the past from the experience of her Oxford educated DS. More generally a medic friend has said that people often have a bias towards where they trained so you tend to have clusters of people who went to the same place. I am surprised at your private experience. When looking up people who were due to treat me I read their private sector bios and one made a big thing of Oxford. Surely the same thing happens in teaching, where teachers/schools seem to love to put Oxon behind a name.

Your daughter is lucky. DD certainly picked up that some London students expected her to be academically weaker. (She wasn't, indeed sometimes the reverse.)

The good thing about this board is that we all have different experiences and observations to contribute. All I wanted to add was that having the ability to take a year out to intercalate, rather than trying to cram a medical degree and a Bachelors all into five years is well worth considering. The latter sounds seriously tough.

@mumsneedwine @Monkey2001 do you know if you can get a Nottingham offer without 3 predicted as? I had read all their sifting criteria as predicted grades weren’t looked at but now I’m unsure whether an offer would actually be extended without it? I know the offer would be
3as but could someone be selected for interview, pass that then not get an offer because of their predicted grades?

@Thethingswedoforlove - Sorry to jump in, but I have spoken to Nottingham's admissions lead fairly recently and know they - like a few other medical schools - don't look at predicted A-Levels at all. Someone's predicted grades don't affect whether they get an offer but everyone has to meet the conditions of the offer. If the offer is AAA you have to get AAA, whatever your predictions are.

We all have to make judgements on how many offers to make, on the basis of how many people will accept the offer and how many of those will go on to meet the conditions. Predicted grades are not particularly helpful with the latter calculation as they are essentially meaningless. I've seen people with three A* predictions go on to get Bs and Cs (and lower), and people with ABB predictions go on to exceed the conditions of an AAA offer. Because all schools/colleges do predictions differently - and some will predict whatever the student needs to be eligible to be considered - it seems very unfair to use them in selection.

@Thethingswedoforlove the first thing it says on the Nottingham link above is

.....that they don't look at predicted or achieved grades as part of selection. I assume Lincoln is the same.

@Monkey2001 thabknyou. Yes but the last thing it says is if your predicted grades meet the academic criteria then your offer will match them or something. It might be that if your predicted grades don’t meet the criteria then the offer will be AAA but it just worried me slightly!!

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne thank you. This is what I was hoping. My dd has I believe for unfair predicted grades and I am confident she will achieve at least aaa. This is a wonderful relief.

@Thethingswedoforlove I can confirm that predicted grades are not looked at by Notts or Lincs, as already said 😊. DD helps at open days so has the up to date info. They agree that they are pretty useless - you have to get AAA.
I know Newcastle don't even need science A levels, let alone predicted grades.
Exeter is the one to watch as need 3 A* predictions and a high UCAT to get an interview. Even though you only need AAA.

I think Newcastle actually do look at predicted grades, although this isn't very obvious. If you look at their admissions policy, it says in Stage 1 - Academic Screen, "Shortlisting for interview involves two steps. In the first step, all applicants are screened to assess whether their predicted or actual academic results meet the minimum entry requirements. Details of the minimum entry requirements can be found at: www.ncl.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/a100/#entryrequirements. If the minimum academic requirements are not met, the applicant will be rejected at this point."

You're correct that their academic requirements don't specify any particular A-Level subjects.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne ah, I thought that meant the grades you had achieved in GCSE. Must admit I will be going over all
the new rules after results day to update my head.
New vet school to add to my list this year.

At the mention of Nottingham, is there any upto date information about what score would get you an interview? Looks like UCAT (+ SJ) gives a max of 120 then it's a max of 32 for GCSEs, so a total of 152?

New vet school to add to my list this year.

Is that UCLan? I presume Aberystwyth just followed the Royal Veterinary College's admissions criteria.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne yes, UCLAN. Only post grad I think next year but keeping an eye on it. Aber is lovely but it only took 25 last year and after 2 years end up at RVC anyway. Harper/Keele has been quite popular.

@Africa2go think it was about 125/126 last year. And pretty much everyone had SJT 1 - they use it a the tie breaker if people are on the same score. It might have ended up a little lower from the waiting list ?

Thanks @mumsneedwine looks like a potential option for DD.

@Africa2go any info just ask. DD in her 5th year there (& may be helping at interviews again 😊).

The cost of accomodation in halls in Bristol seem much more than some of the other universities dd is interested in. I think someone said that there are years when you don't need to pay. Can anyone explain how it works? Also roughly how much are rooms in shared houses after the first year?

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor Bristol is expensive - halls and private rental ! For comparison, I pay £5,200 a year for DDs house in Notts and over £8,200 for my DD in Bristol (although she's moving down to Langford next year which brings it down a lot). Halls were not as big a difference and there is a wide variety of prices at Bristol.
Students only don't pay fees in their last year. Rent is still payable (unless Uni provide accommodation in the hospital placements but then limited chance of living with friends).