Oxford / Cambridge - current students support / chat thread

[DadDadDad]

Continuing a thread for anyone who wants to talk about their sons' and daughters' experience being a student in Oxford or Cambridge. (Or nephews, granddaughters, sisters, uncles - or if you or they have now graduated but you want to share your thoughts - all are welcome!)

I have a DS in his second year at Oxford, studying a small humanity in a tiny college.

Over to you...

Chilldonaldchill. My GP as an individual is very, very good. My issue is with the obstructiveness of this particular receptionist who can't do the slightest weeny tiny thing to facilitate legitimate appointments such as sending registration forms electronically (rural area, DD can't drive, no viable public transport to the surgery) She's become worse and even more power hungry since the pandemic. It's pathetic. It's also relatively amusing in its way, just how self-important she is. As a whole GPs in our area have had an easy time of it during the pandemic and are very richly rewarded for their time, so I don't think they need minders quite as aggressively obstructive as this one. Fortunately as a family we rarely see the GP (the GP once said we were his ideal patients, due to lack of appointments), and I haven't gone to the GP for two or more years, despite being 'extremely clinically vulnerable' (apparently) so we are not objectively a deserving target of this lady. DS1 who is doing a stint in a busy London A&E dept at the moment says far too many people are coming through the door with problems which absolutely merit a GPs time but that they can't get an appointment despite pleading.

@Chilldonaldchill - surely students are a particular case, though? They have not moved permanently to university. They spend half the year at "home". Therefore they have a 50/50 chance of getting ill at either place.

It may well be the "rules" and the "system" - but sometimes rules and systems are arse and need to be adapted.

Who on earth thinks that a student returning home for the holidays is a "temporary resident" when they've lived there their whole life?! If you've packed your bags and left to live in London say after graduation, then that's obviously completely different. But to pontificate about rools and systems that are clearly daft (and in the worst case potentially dangerous) sounds thoroughly jobsworth.

How have any of you dealt in a practical way with perfectionism, either in yourselves or in a DC?

@Cornishcornettos - I'm sorry to hear this. My DS is also a fresher at O in a science subject. He too says the workload is 'unreal'. I visited recently and spoke to a 2nd year who told me the 5th week blues are a real thing - mainly because of stress of falling behind with lecture notes. He said it gets better in 6th week because you are so behind by then you stop worrying. Obviously a little tongue in cheek but your DS should know he is not alone. My DS knows of 2 people on his course who have changed to another course already.
I wish him all the best and hope he is able to take some of the other good advice and find someone to speak with.

Yes 100% DottyH.

Not a problem for me Although actually if I am brutally honest I don't try at a lot of things because if I can't win, I'm not in.

Dd is very, very driven. She is finding the workload at O huge, but is enjoying it. I do worry that she will stumble if she doesn't always get the praise she thrives on.

@Cornishcornettos very sorry to hear this. Both of my older DC have struggled. The workload is absolutely brutal. DS considered switching subjects but decided it would possibly be out of the frying pan, in to the fire.

Plenty of students do seem to rusticate but the question is whether starting again would help. If DS has mental health issues, it is so important to get help with that. As far as I can tell, about half of my DC's peer group are on anti-depressants after the year they've had.

Good luck. It's such a worry.

@goodbyestranger We seem to have the opposite problem in our family...

Thanks Dotty and pantjog. It's very unhelpful with the overwhelming volume of work.

Actually I was being facetious. DD is a perfectionist but that manifests itself in not being able to complete a task for fear of it being inadequate. I don’t think she’d mind me saying that she’s had a recent diagnosis of ADHD which makes sense of a lot of her traits.

I should think anyone arriving at Oxbridge is an extremely high achiever, and therefore when the work is overwhelming and they feel for the first time in their life that they're not coping let alone not coming "top", then they can easily start to get in a state.

Looking at the bumf dd had in her room there seems to be a lot of help available. Of course a student needs to have the gumption to ask, and I think also to set their pride aside. That is very, very hard, particularly for boys who are generally much less good at "opening up".

@Cornishcornettos I'm really sorry to hear that your DS is struggling. You don't say which subject it is but my DS is doing Physics and I remember that the first year was brutal but it did get better. Still lots of work but manageable.

Most lectures are online so he can watch them over the vac to catch up and see how he feels then. Also one of his college parents should be his subject so may be able to reassure him. DS's college father was brilliant in that regard.

Oh, yes, the college parents. At least one should be friendly enough to have a chat with, and probably will be reassuring as to the initial horror of the workload.

@Cornishcornettos sorry to hear this, you have had some great advice from pp so nothing nothing to add except to say, it's really early days and lots of potential to settle down and pull things round. I think the initial workload is incredibly heavy, ds is a second year kow and finding it much more manageable, has in fact finished all his problem sheets for the term!
We had a good Skype last night, he seems much recovered and is playing chess matches most weeks now which is very heartening. He's about to switch degrees from Maths to Maths with Statistics. I have reminded him he has form for making a decision then regretting it but he assures me he had spoken with all his tutors.

@Cornishcornettos I'm also sorry to hear about your ds and I hope he is able to seek out some support or someone to talk to, and make the best decision for his circumstances. My (limited) experience of O is that there are lots of avenues for support, including academic parents, student welfare team, college welfare etc, and it might be a case of your ds finding the one he clicks with best. Dd is in her first term at O doing a joint degree and the workload is OK-ish for one subject but beyond brutal for the subject she's started post A-level. One person doing her subject combination switched to single honours in the first 2 weeks and is now much happier. The others are clinging on for the moment as far as I can see. Dd had hoped to be active in a couple of different clubs/societies but has found she really doesn't have the time - a few other freshers in her college are making the most of the many societies O has to offer, but their workload/contact hours are much less. Dd has now made a conscious decision to try to move away from her perfectionist tendencies and do 'just enough' to keep up. She's been unwell since the end of week 0 too, which hasn't helped. She's pinning her hopes on the Christmas break to consolidate some of her knowledge, get well again and read ahead for next term. I guess that's what O expects the 'holidays' to be used for. It kind of struck me the other day that being at Oxbridge is a bit like getting pregnant - you're so focussed on achieving the thing you want that you don't really stop to think about the bit that come after. Anyway, sorry to ramble, but just wanted to send lots of positive thoughts your way, and reassure you that your ds is far from the only one struggling with workload and expectations.

Also, thank you to the parents of second years who have said that the workload is more manageable after first year - finding that very encouraging at the moment.

2nd year Oxford STEM is definitely more manageable!

Wow I feel like have been given a massive group hug by you all. I really needed that reassurance as am feeling very anxious about it all and such wonderful practical advice too. I just hope that I can impart some of this to DS in a way that he will be receptive to. @HewasH2O thank you so much for the links to the podcasts- as he is so loathe to talk to anyone, this may be something he would at least start with.

@Cornishcornettos, just wanted to send more hugs your way and to add my bit that it's completely normal for Freshers to begin feeling overwhelmed and just wanting to extract themselves at this point in term. For some degree subjects - not all - the workload is ridiculously demanding and doesn't sit well with someone who's always, before, been able to keep on top of everything and meet their own high expectations. I do think a lot of it is to do with starting to aim for 'good enough' rather than perfection. Another thing for your DS to think about is, what's his eventual aim, post uni - and why did he choose this degree? Then working backwards from this, he can decide if it's worth pursuing and getting over this hurdle with any help and support available or changing tack.

Although my DCs seems to be thriving, I didn't when I was at O forty years ago. I seriously considered changing to a subject that matched my A levels and where my strengths lay, rather than a completely new path, far away from my natural abilities. However, I had an end goal career in mind and so stuck it out and by the second year, was managing much better. My degree was one that had lots of component parts each week, not just one or two essays and I think any degree that means juggling lectures, essays, worksheets, labs etc etc is far more demanding than those where you just focus down on your topic or topics for the week and write essays. I don't regret staying the course but I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if I'd swapped to English or History - which are in fact the degrees my DCs are studying and ones which I'd have found much easier.

If your DS can talk at length to his tutor and to second years and perhaps wait until he's recuperated a bit across the vacation before making any major decisions, then he may gain more perspective. Right now, I doubt he's in the best frame of mind to make a decision.

@Beeswain, just wanted to say it's lovely to hear your DS is enjoying life at uni now and playing a lot of chess. This sounds great and given he's done so well academically, he probably knows best where his interests lie and if he wants to add Statistics to the mix, this is probably right for him!

[quote DottyHarmer]@Chilldonaldchill - surely students are a particular case, though? They have not moved permanently to university. They spend half the year at "home". Therefore they have a 50/50 chance of getting ill at either place.

It may well be the "rules" and the "system" - but sometimes rules and systems are arse and need to be adapted.

Who on earth thinks that a student returning home for the holidays is a "temporary resident" when they've lived there their whole life?! If you've packed your bags and left to live in London say after graduation, then that's obviously completely different. But to pontificate about rools and systems that are clearly daft (and in the worst case potentially dangerous) sounds thoroughly jobsworth.[/quote]
But that's an argument for the government not for practices. Their notes will have gone to their uni GP. They won't be at the practice. For example they could have gone to their GP at uni saying they're suicidal and then come to their GP at home asking for more medication which would be dangerous but deny those things to that GP and there's no way of seeing the previous records. That's just one example of millions of things that could go wrong.
This is not an argument worth getting into here but must GPs are actually not well rewarded for their time and I think it unlikely that there's somewhere in the UK where GPs are having an easy time of it. It's an absolute nightmare and they are leaving the profession faster than ever before.
Anyway that's not the point - the point is the GP does not have access to the notes, recent prescriptions/tests etc and it's not safe practice. I'd be very happy if someone said "students should be allowed to register in two places" (like they can vote in two!) - although to be fair it would be fairly low down my list of stupid systemic decisions that make my life miserable - but that's not something an individual practice can do.
Start a petition maybe?

Notes are only accessible at one’s own GP? What’s the point of their being online,then, if other medical settings cannot see them?

I’m sorry if GPs are overworked, but this is not a good enough excuse to perpetuate a silly system, and presumably causes admin staff more work, re-registering a patient who has been at university but who was registered there only a few weeks beforehand for 18 years.

@CornishCornettos check your PMs.

@DottyHarmer

Notes are only accessible at one’s own GP? What’s the point of their being online,then, if other medical settings cannot see them?

I’m sorry if GPs are overworked, but this is not a good enough excuse to perpetuate a silly system, and presumably causes admin staff more work, re-registering a patient who has been at university but who was registered there only a few weeks beforehand for 18 years.

Yes! There is no point to note being online at all - they are only accessible to you - it's just a "good idea" thought up by someone in government who thinks they know what people want 🙄. Lots of people assume they know how things work and have no idea! Hospitals also can't access any GP notes. GPs can access some of the hospital notes (but only in the last year or so). GP computer systems are much much more sophisticated than hospital systems (which are frankly ridiculous) but they still can't talk to any other system. And yes of course it causes more work to re-register someone - as I've already said, it would be good if students could be dual-registered - but that's the only safe appropriate permitted way to do it Like I said before - no point shooting the messenger. I really hope none of you have kids doing medicine. These sorts of things are absolute minutiae in the morass of nonsensical bureaucracy affecting every single aspect of every single person working in the NHS. I met a medical student the other day who told me the most shocking thing he'd find about working in the health service was how often the computers crashed - he just assumed someone would make sure they could cope with the workload.

@goodbyestranger I wanted to reply to your perfectionist question. DS at O isn't really a perfectionist, but DD (medic at Cardiff) is. I think what happened with her was that she realised somewhere during her 2nd year, that that she had to choose between doing "enough" and being able to do other stuff, or just work and nothing else. She is very social, so it wasn't a difficult decision, once she realised it was a decision she could make. Obviously it's not always easy to know what is "enough", but I think she generally manages to work it out now. She will still verbalise that she's not done "everything" but "you can never do everything so it's ok"! I hope that's a bit helpful!