Is an EPQ worth doing?

[Barwell76]

My ds is in year 12 and is unsure whether to do an EPQ. I know his 6th form do offer them but they havent mentioned them yet. I dont know much about them.
He wants to do Computer Science at Uni and from looking at uni websites, some but not all seem to give one grade lower on their offer if you achieve an A.
My ds seems to think that he should concentrate on his A levels subjects to try to get the highest possible grades rather than spread himself too thinly by doing the EPQ, but is unsure what to do.

It depends on the student and the course they want to study. I teach EPQ. We start all y12 on it; around 2/3 complete it.

The skills they learn in terms of researching, planning, writing, referencing etc are invaluable. Yes, some students do get lower offers but that should not be the reason to do it.

Currently I have a student keen to study Law at uni who is taking other subjects at A level. She wants to do a Law-based EPQ as she thinks it will be interesting and possibly help her application.

DD's college starts it at the end of Y12, she started it over the summer but has since decided against, college are fine with this, agreeing better to focus on grades in chosen subjects. She has 3/5 offers in without it so seems vindicated.

My children both did one but more for the experience of doing the research and planning than anything. The experience was great for them.

At my sons school, they either had to do an EPQ or study core maths at AS level. Because my son did A level economics they insisted he had to study core maths. Everyone had to do one or the other though in his school.

No, complete waste of time.

Six of my DC had to do one, two didn’t.

If your DS genuinely thinks he'll be spread too thin doing his A levels and doing an EPQ might impact his grades then it would probably be a mistake to do one.

But it's possible to do something that complements them, or makes a bit of a change from them. My DD did an 'artefact' epq (budding engineer so she designed and built a robot) - she did quite a bit of the work during the summer between yr 12 and 13. The 'project planning' and presentation aspects were quite good, I thought. It doesn't necessarily have to be a long piece of writing if that's what your DS is worried about.

DS did an EPQ. He enjoyed the research and writing to a point but hated the diary / learning journal that he was supposed to do too. Thought it was complete nonsense and a waste of time.

As a result DD chose not to do one, and focus on A levels instead.

She was someone who theoretically should have done EPQ as she was applying for a subject that she could not do for A level - but DS put her off.

Total waste of time.

DD did an EPQ. She enjoyed it and it was relevant to her course.

It wasn’t necessary by any means but it did mean one grade lower would have been acceptable - but only at one of her choices.

DD did Maths, Chemistry and Biology at A level and is studying medicine. She has just had to submit an essay, and it did strike me that had she not done an EPQ, she would not have really done much (if any) essay writing since GCSE so it has probably been good for her in that respect - knows how to reference correctly etc. This is my observation rather than hers though!! She’s not been calling me saying thank goodness I did my EPQ!! I guess I’m just saying it can also help in an indirect way. It can be useful to mention at interviews too in some cases.

I think what it comes down to is that it's worth doing if the student wants to do it and it's something they're genuinely interested in, if they can do it without impacting their A levels.

If they're doing it only because 'some but not all seem to give one grade lower on their offer if you achieve an A.' but there's any chance it'll make them a grade lower on an A level then clearly it'd be a mistake.

DS chose to do the EPQ. He finished it in year 12 and he achieved an A* but to do that it took A LOT of work! So my suggestion would to only take it on if they were truly committed to it and were passionate about the subject they were taking.

If he feels he wants to concentrate on his A level subjects then he might prefer to focus his extra time on doing extension work linked to them.
For example trying out some of the questions and events that Isaac computer science provide
isaaccomputerscience.org/

Or other challenges for computer science
for example
www.chch.ox.ac.uk/admissions/python-challenges-page

DS2 did one. Despite being completely irrelevant to his chosen subject at university, Oxford seemed extremely interested in it at interview. He's now been offered a place there.

One of my DC did it, it was excellent for them as it was a) very different to their Alevels and b) gave them some insight into an aspect of a subject they wanted to consider for future study.

I don't think there is one right answer.

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats Oxford told one applicant from our school who pitched up with her EPQ in a folder to leave it at the back of the room because they weren't in the least interested in it and had particular questions to ask so that all applicants were assessed equally.

It's possible to do an EPQ with almost no effort at all and get an A* in it. It can be interesting, of course it can, but doing other things around your subject or even not at all related to your subject can be equally if not more interesting (and varied). It's just so easy to mock up admissions tutors know it's of next to no value.

The gift of the EPQ is mainly for schools, who can notch up extra hours for funding purposes with the absolute minimum of staff input. And for independent schools they can spin the independent learning line to stick in their sixth form marketing bumph.

@Barwell76 when my DSs were at sixth form it didn’t seem to be a thing to do an EPQ but 4-5 years later it was mentioned for DD in year 12. She didn’t know what she wanted to do for degree so signed up. Started in spring for hand in start of October. EPQ unrelated to biosciences but personal interest to her. When started looking at unis 8/12 on long list would consider it if A or B achieved for one downgrade in offer so AAB to ABB. This pushed her to complete it - which was hell in the last week before hand in as school work and homework on top! In the end 3 possibly 4/5 ucas choices will consider it. So useful for her. I would check out degrees he is likely to do and check if they will give a down grade. If he doesn’t want to do though it probably won’t get done so I would probably provide him with the results of your research but let him decide.

My son is just finishing his epq (AQA). I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it's a good way of showing interest in the subject he wants to study at uni. Also, some universities drop one grade in one subject if you get an A in an epq.

But it's been a lot of work. He spent a lot of the holidays writing the report part and is just about to do his presentation and finish it. Agree with the person who said the log takes quite a bit of effort and is quite repetitive. Part of his issue is that he chose a meaty topic which required a lot of research to cover effectively. And that was after narrowing down which his supervisor suggested. You also can't pick a topic that overlaps in any way with your syllabus so, while it improves your broader knowledge, it may not be knowledge you can directly use in your A level exams.

He's also doing his geography fieldwork coursework at the moment, plus Gold d of e, a lot of school sport and his UCAS application. As a result, his grades in one of his A level subjects dipped a bit in the last half term. His teachers said that's the case with most pupils but the epq is diverting time from his other A levels.

He's at an academically selective private school and most of the other pupils who elected to take an epq have abandoned it by now. I'm not sure I'd encourage my younger son to take one if I'm honest.

@goodbyestranger
So based on your and our experiences we can only conclude that having an EPQ may, or may not, be useful, and that some admissions tutors respect them and others don't. .
Not sure I agree with the comment that It's possible to do an EPQ with almost no effort at all and get an A in it. DS2 did get an A but he took it very seriously.

I think what it comes down to is that it's worth doing if the student wants to do it and it's something they're genuinely interested in, if they can do it without impacting their A levels.

I agree. Some A level subjects have an element of research and coursework in the form of an NEA. DD had to do an NEA for geography A level. EPQs weren't really a thing at her school when she was doing her A levels (she took them in 2018).

At the university subject talks we attended we were told that they didn't take EPQs into account because not all schools did them.

Not sure I agree with the comment that It's possible to do an EPQ with almost no effort at all and get an A in it. DS2 did get an A star but he took it very seriously.

Goodbyestranger has several exceptionally bright DC. This isn't the usual experience for most parents.

Grumpyoldperson the fact that your DS took his EPQ very seriously and got an A is possibly less telling than the fact that my DC also all got A and to a DC did it with almost no effort at all and also with vanishingly little interest as the tick box nature of the EPQ kicked in (and got places at Oxford too).

It's oversold by schools, for the above reasons.

I really take issue with the fact that my DC are exceptionally bright. They are not exceptional.

Also can I just add (before whizzing off at speed to my Covid booster jab) that their HT at school totally concurs with my view.

I think they are @goodbyestranger. Be realistic, not many parents have several DC get an A* at an EPQ with no effort, and then go to Oxford University. It is unusual.

About the EPQ I mean, not their brightness :)