Is an EPQ worth doing?

[Barwell76]

My ds is in year 12 and is unsure whether to do an EPQ. I know his 6th form do offer them but they havent mentioned them yet. I dont know much about them.
He wants to do Computer Science at Uni and from looking at uni websites, some but not all seem to give one grade lower on their offer if you achieve an A.
My ds seems to think that he should concentrate on his A levels subjects to try to get the highest possible grades rather than spread himself too thinly by doing the EPQ, but is unsure what to do.

You totally misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying they are comparable.

@Oblomov21 sorry, thought you meant they were a replacement somehow for General Studies A level (which was a bit of a joke, although really fun to teach )

Np. I only meant comparable / replacement in that they replaced GS which was naff, with EPQ which is different, but still naff.

@Oblomov21 I rate them far higher than the old General studies as they do teach skills that are valuable researching and referencing but I do agree entirely that starting one in year 13 is crazy. DD's school had 2-3 cohorts at staggered times across year 12. Last group finishing at the beginning of this month. Many top biosciences courses at uni accepted them - only Durham and Warwick didn't.

dc1 did one about something he was really interested in. He also said the EPQ work was most similar to what he is now doing at uni (humanity).
He didn't get his predicted (and required) grades but one the basis of lower requirements with an EPQ he still got in (first choice)

It depends on the student DS did one during lockdown at the end of year 11 and they had to have it completed in the September of year 12.
It helped keep him motivated during lockdown and he learned some good research skills and working to a time line. He also made reference to it on his UCAS personal statement as it is relevant to his undergraduate study. He is predicted an A* for it so in his case definitely worthwhile.

I find it negatively effects a lot of students as they either focus on it too much to the detriment of their a levels, or they use it an excuse as to why they're not doing what they should

My kids school they do either 4 A levels each or 3 A levels and an EPQ. I think the EPQ is mainly for the kids would can't quite stretch to 4 A levels. The EPQ is quite easy apparently and they complete it in year 12 to focus on A levels in year 13.
Sorry, not really helpful but that's what my kids school does.

1/2 an A'level, for all that work?

I'm afraid that that comment makes me think of the old saying about 'knowing the price of everything, but the value of nothing'.

(Just because we didn't try to get our DC to change their minds about doing / completing their own EPQ doesn't mean that I don't see that the point / value / usefulness of the concept).

mumsneedwine I suspect that the EPQs at our school have been marked very expertly, since one of our members of staff is a chief examiner or equivalent. I mean, he knows the rules back to front, as indeed he should. I was simply using shorthand for all the other bits you mention - planning etc etc. My point was that the EPQ is not judged primarily on the quality or originality or creativity of thought. Which is exactly why it's so easy to mock up with little intellectual effort, if any.

My youngest DD told the school she wouldn't do the EPQ despite only doing three A levels, on the basis of advice from the older DC. She nevertheless got five/ five offers from her unis, and enjoyed more free time at school and more freedom (because of more free time) to do stuff which interested her than others who simply acquiesced and then regretted it.

@goodbyestranger I think you to rethink the comment as it seems to read ...the 'chief examiner' member of staff provides competitive advantage to the pupils at your school over other schools through insider knowledge and teaches the pupils how to fudge their EPQs for the best grades.

However surely if the EPQ is soooo easy why would not doing it confer increased free time for your DD? if it can be knocked up so quickly?

Fact: Many universities within the UK with great reputations like the EPQ - some using it to confer lower grade offers and others using it to choose between close candidates if heaven forbid you do not make your offer grades. Best taken in year 12. Not for everyone but useful for many.

Quick shout out for anyone who is considering UEA - they are doing EPQ related scholarship of £3000 to those completing EPQs on certain topics - see link below

www.uea.ac.uk/study/fees-and-funding/scholarships-finder/scholarships-a-z/bright-spark-undergraduate-scholarship

Which is exactly why it's so easy to mock up with little intellectual effort, if any.

I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to do an EPQ with that attitude.
Perhaps you think those who've put effort into their project were foolish and wasting their time - I'd say it's rather the other way out. They are likely to get out of it in proportion to what they put into it.
It's valuable if it's worthwhile to the student as an end in itself, not so much if it's a shallow means to an end.

Out? Round.

If a chief examiner is working in a school and teaching that subject he will be struck off v v fast. Naughty man - hope this isn't true ! Even assistant examiners (me) have to declare conflict of interest so I can mark the exams I teach but but he involved in setting the exams (which chief examiners are).
Never sure why any school makes kids sit 4 A levels. Sorry, but it's a waste of time (unless they do further maths or have no outside school interests to occupy themselves).

Of course students can put in effort and be intellectually creative etc Errol, and all credit. The thing is that other students can bag a top grade with none of the effort. I quite agree that you get out what you put in, but that isn't measured by the grading system accurately at all, which is a real flaw.

Not be involved

Might not be reflected at you school @goodbyestranger but your school does seem to produce students who all get A stars with no work. So not representative of the whole country who do have to put work in to get good grades.

That is not correct mumsneedwine. Also, I didn't say they were necessarily teaching the same exam board. Our SLT know exactly what they're doing but of course a number of senior members of staff are examiners, that's true in any decent school.

@Barwell76 an EPQ can be v useful for a lower offer, to get a scholarship or just for the love of learning about something of interest. It teaches referencing for Uni as well as reflective skills that are useful in life. But not going to cause any harm if they don't have it.

@goodbyestranger you said chief examiner. A v different thing. Most staff are examiners (otherwise exams would never get marked in time). Chief examiners write the papers and moderate the mark schemes. Only 2 do EPQ.

Which is exactly why it's so easy to mock up with little intellectual effort, if any.

The school does get mostly A* mumsneedwine, so it's doing something right on the grade front. I mean, they're not going to actively encourage their students to pitch for lower grades are they?

Last year's grades dipped a bit actually as only three quarters of all students got an A* but you know - odd year.

Thankyou all for the range of opinions, I think ds is inclined not to do it but we will keep an open mind and see what information we get from school about it. We have just trawled though a batch of uni websites to see which ones do offer a grade lower.