Is an EPQ worth doing?

[Barwell76]

My ds is in year 12 and is unsure whether to do an EPQ. I know his 6th form do offer them but they havent mentioned them yet. I dont know much about them.
He wants to do Computer Science at Uni and from looking at uni websites, some but not all seem to give one grade lower on their offer if you achieve an A.
My ds seems to think that he should concentrate on his A levels subjects to try to get the highest possible grades rather than spread himself too thinly by doing the EPQ, but is unsure what to do.

Most kids at school across the years have got an A* RampantIvy.

Both DDs started one but dropped as they decided that higher grades in their A levels was the most important thing and I agreed. DD1 got Oxford shortlisted, past tests and had interview. She didn’t get selected but just shows EPQ wasn’t important.None of the other candidates had it either and lots were from private/grammar schools.

@goodbyestranger I agree Oxbridge and Durham and Warwick may not be interested in terms of alternative offer but have friends in top unis who work in admissions. An interesting EPQ in a subject clearly chosen by the student as genuinely interested in it ( often unrelated to degree applied for) mentioned in the PS shows motivation to learn outside the classroom and swings it in favour of that child - especially when there are near misses from several offer holders in a competitive year. (Having students able to reference and research correctly as a result is an added bonus).

Most kids at school across the years have got an A RampantIvy*

I'm rashly assuming your children are at a selective school then?

Overall 24.2% of students received an A* for EPQ in 2020, so your school ecperience is not typical of the country as a whole.

Most kids at school across the years have got an A RampantIvy.*

Because your DC went to a selective grammer school @goodbyestranger.

The students I know who went to the comprehensive schools and 6th form colleges round here got a range of A*s, As and Bs in their EPQs. We don't have any state grammer schools round here.

Grammar
I can spell

DD is now at Durham and none of her group did it either. So, I’d say so it if they really want to but don’t think that they have to, to get a good uni.

I think it was really helpful for dd, it was good experience in conducting a piece of research, gave her a change of pace from A levels and was probably instrumental in both accessing summer placements. Interestingly, her topic of choice is still her main research interest.

Apologies - enboldening failure above. My comment relates to the number of students receiving A* grades as per the previous post.

@goodbyestranger
Would you concede that if getting the required EPQ grade got you a reduced offer for your top choice Uni, and you got in, then the EPQ was worth doing?

At my children's (selective) school they only allow 20 people to do them per year. They say it's to ensure that the majority focus on getting excellent A level results. Those who do do them get A/A* but obviously there aren't representative.
Dc1 was offered the chance to do one and we discouraged them as they were doing 3 essay subjects already, 2 of which had coursework (and one of those was very intense). They're now studying at Cambridge so it didn't impact on that.
It feels as though maybe EPQs have become more important to some universities in the last couple of years but I don't know if that's true.

A to B was the grade range at my DDs school with the last set marked probably about 45% were A but this is a very selective grammar. Local comp grade range was A - C but only put kids in who showed genuine interest 25% were A. A is fairly easy IF you are an A or A student in other A levels and working at this level is natural to you. Please don’t diminish the successes of DCs.

Depends. For some courses at Uni they give lower offers if have an A or A star on EPQ. So,as an example, Sheffield for medicine will offer AAB with EPQ and AAA without. Many other courses/Unis do similar.
It also gives students something to talk about if have interviews. Gives them a topic to talk about in depth.
So can be useful.

@mumneedswine I totally agree - so helpful in many ways

stub off no I wouldn’t concede that I don’t think. The marks from the EPQ come overwhelmingly from submitting things on time. Remarkably little weight is given to the quality of work submitted. My view - with quite a number of DC having done an EPQ (it was compulsory at their school) - is that it’s an incredibly shallow qualification. But if a DC fancies doing it, then fine, obviously.

stubiff - autocorrect - apologies!

Imperial asked DS1 about his EPQ (Medicine) but it was almost in passing. The interviewing panel was much more focused on the standard questions. It’s not going to be more than an ice breaker in interviews because of the need for a level playing field between applicants. So, useful .... up to a point.

It feels as though maybe EPQs have become more important to some universities in the last couple of years but I don't know if that's true.

'Recognised', rather than 'important', perhaps?

Three DC, three different schools for A levels here. For the first two, doing an EPQ was, in theory, compulsory (but DS1 managed to swerve it altogether and DD - possibly due to poor initial advice from the school - ended up abandoning hers). For DS2, the EPQ 'place' had to be applied for and he decided not to.

I do remember that it wasn't mentioned wrt entry for DS1's subject (Biochemistry) anywhere. It may have been for DD's (IR and French) or DS2's (History of Art) but since they didn't do the EPQ, any difference it might have made to A level offers would have been irrelevant to them personally. It was definitely relevant for one of their friends, though.

It is a good experience and can really help to develop the kind of skills that will be important for uni. But if they are struggling with their actual A Levels it's not worth risking the grades they might get in those.

If they can, they should - IMO anyway!

Is an EPQ considered necessary if the student is studying A levels that has an NEA component?
How many words is an EPQ?

DD's geography NEA, which included having to do some local research and a survey was 6,000 words long.

EPQ is being v badly marked if it's about handing things in on time. Approx 40% of marks are for the final report plus presentation. The rest are for planning, the production diary thing (including retrospectively looking at where you have researched something, changed the focus of EPQ and moved on, as well as explaining how you've used each price of research), and a detailed summary of the process. They are a right pain to mark ! But students seem to gain a lot from doing one - especially when you mention something the person interviewing you is an expert in. They seem to like it when you're mentioned in their EPQ.

@RampantIvy there is no maximum number of words and an EPQ does not have to just be a research paper. It can be a film, a detailed presentation or even a podcast. I've seen some incredibly creative ones over the years.

@LindaEllen

It is a good experience and can really help to develop the kind of skills that will be important for uni. But if they are struggling with their actual A Levels it's not worth risking the grades they might get in those.

If they can, they should - IMO anyway!

This hits the nail on the head. The EPQ is valuable because it helps students develop skills they need at uni, which aren’t necessarily developed by their curriculum studies depending on A Levels chosen and how the school teaches. Anecdotally (data isn’t publicly available yet) there does seem to be a correlation between students confidence in the first few weeks of uni and having done an EPQ.

I don't rate them. They are a replacement for the old General Studies, which in itself was useless, only worse. 1/2 an A'level, for all that work? Many universities including Durham don't even recognise them. My only saving grace is that Ds1's school do them early in year 12, so they are over and done with. I feel sorry for those students whose schools leave them till late in year 13, when they should only be concentrating on mocks then the real exams.

@Oblomov21 they are not doing it properly then. The whole point of the EPQ is to learn research skills, be reflective in using any knowledge gained and learning to reference & organise the research. Nothing at all like any A Level. There is no content to learn and the final product (which can be a multitude of things not just a paper) is of less importance than how you got there.
Do wonder what some schools do with the EPQ - it should be left to students to do with minimal input from staff or family (this leads to a deduction of marks).
Some Unis don't look at them, some do for some courses. And give lower offers if have one.