Is an EPQ worth doing?

[Barwell76]

My ds is in year 12 and is unsure whether to do an EPQ. I know his 6th form do offer them but they havent mentioned them yet. I dont know much about them.
He wants to do Computer Science at Uni and from looking at uni websites, some but not all seem to give one grade lower on their offer if you achieve an A.
My ds seems to think that he should concentrate on his A levels subjects to try to get the highest possible grades rather than spread himself too thinly by doing the EPQ, but is unsure what to do.

Some do. But the speed at which some offers return implies they don’t. Plus for some places you could write poo, bum, wee in the space and they’d still take you.

@DottyHarmer

Some do. But the speed at which some offers return implies they don’t. Plus for some places you could write poo, bum, wee in the space and they’d still take you.

That sounds like the kind of place Dd3 would like to apply for

Well, ok if you’re hoping to study Medicine, I suppose .

For Oxbridge it’s a toss up. If you hope they’re going to talk about something you want to talk about at interview…. you’re probably going to be very disappointed!

One of DDs interviewers at Cambridge seemed to have read her PS, recognised her engagement with one of the branches of engineering in particular and then very deliberately asked her something completely unrelated to it.

LSE certainly read the PS and they could no emphasise the importance of it more. There are no interviews and thousands of students with a full sweep of A*. What else do they have to distinguish between them?

I think unis look at applications in context. If you are from a very good and /or selective school where the EPQ is on offer to all and kind of expected, they will wonder why you didn’t do one. It’s a bit like Further Maths - probably ok not to have done it if it wasn’t on offer at your school, but if it wad and you’re applying for competitive Maths / STEM, then why would you not have done it?

And Dotty, just because you happened to see a few crap EPQs, please don’t extrapolate this to apply to the many thousands of excellent and very worthwhile ones which are produced every year. If you had happened to visit another school, you might well have got a very different impression.

Not querying the value of an EPQ at all, but to add to the debate, what is the potential value of doing an EPQ to a student, as key.

If it is to try and secure lower offers, or develop skills they may not have had a chance to nurture within their standard A/IB courses, give them a talking point at interview etc, then all great.

DD didn't do one (did an extended Research Project marked internally only) but opted for an AS instead in Maths. High risk as not her strength subject in spite of 10 x GCSE 9s, lower points for UCAS (not relevant to her), CAO (Irish, is relevant to her) and is subsequently borderline B/A predicted against 3 predicted A* A levels.

But, she felt that whilst a nice to have, she didn't need the fall-back of lower offers, but did need the scheduling slot to develop extra maths skills, which may come in useful for her post graduate options, especially where there may be psychometric/assessment centre requirements. This was of higher value to her, and personal to her needs.

It may all well back-fire as she's awaiting offers now, but if your application really doesn't need to demonstrate EPQ credentials, then it does place a lot of students under unnecessary herd pressure. I think it's great that so many posters' DC have benefitted from submitting one and got a lot out of it, but those contemplating it should query the 'why', beyond well everyone's doing it so I have to too.

Heartily agree, @ealingwestmum . If an epq is required, then universities would state as such, otherwise they could be in trouble for having secret admissions criteria.

It seems a shame that something originally conceived in order to stretch and expand a particular interest is now an “everyone’s doing one - you’ve got to come up with something” exercise for many.

@ealingwestmum

Not querying the value of an EPQ at all, but to add to the debate, what is the potential value of doing an EPQ to a student, as key.

If it is to try and secure lower offers, or develop skills they may not have had a chance to nurture within their standard A/IB courses, give them a talking point at interview etc, then all great.

DD didn't do one (did an extended Research Project marked internally only) but opted for an AS instead in Maths. High risk as not her strength subject in spite of 10 x GCSE 9s, lower points for UCAS (not relevant to her), CAO (Irish, is relevant to her) and is subsequently borderline B/A predicted against 3 predicted A* A levels.

But, she felt that whilst a nice to have, she didn't need the fall-back of lower offers, but did need the scheduling slot to develop extra maths skills, which may come in useful for her post graduate options, especially where there may be psychometric/assessment centre requirements. This was of higher value to her, and personal to her needs.

It may all well back-fire as she's awaiting offers now, but if your application really doesn't need to demonstrate EPQ credentials, then it does place a lot of students under unnecessary herd pressure. I think it's great that so many posters' DC have benefitted from submitting one and got a lot out of it, but those contemplating it should query the 'why', beyond well everyone's doing it so I have to too.

She'll almost certainly have the AS in maths taken into consideration when they are giving offers

Im amazed thst she's predicted Bs with 10 9s at GCSE!

Mine enjoyed doing their epq. They were fun. Plus they got lower offers which took some pressure off. Students I knew who did core maths also got lower offers

I think it's great practice (and demonstrates capability) to do the independent study and dissertation type work needed at university. If it can be in a topic they want to study at uni all the better.

My DC had completed a Gold Crest Award (his school do not offer EPQ as he's in Scotland).

Does anyone know how this compares in prestige/challenge to the EPQ? It's for computer science and he designed, costed, built and programmed a 3D room scanner, plus wrote a 7000 word report.

Thanks treguffin. It’s B on UCAS paper because she apparently goes a different route to solutions. It’s an issue for her current maths teacher unfortunately. I am sure she’ll be able to prove her wrong if they ever get to sit some actual exams in summer.

@Aurea

My DC had completed a Gold Crest Award (his school do not offer EPQ as he's in Scotland).

Does anyone know how this compares in prestige/challenge to the EPQ? It's for computer science and he designed, costed, built and programmed a 3D room scanner, plus wrote a 7000 word report.

I don't think they're recognised from the perspective of UCAS tariff points

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCAS_Tariff

But as something to write about on the PS and be able to talk about if necessary to demonstrate engagement, what your DS did sounds very good.

Thank you Errol for the tariff scores. That's interesting.

Even more interesting is that a Scottish advanced higher at grade A2 (70%+) is worth 56 points (equivalent to A star at A level). An A1 (85%+) most be off the scale!!!

I think that may be a false comparison Aurea because those students achieving between 85% and 100% at A level in England still only get 56 points. A Scottish A1 won't necessarily be 'better' than an A*. It might be, but it might well not be.

But perhaps that wasn't what you meant.

I think it's widely recognised that because uni league tables include tariffs as one of their metrics, they somewhat over-rate Scottish unis because of the different weightings, Aurea

An Advanced Higher is just an Advanced Higher, tariff-wise.

www.ucas.com/ucas/tariff-calculator

Fair point @goodbyestranger about my DDs' subjects but both also did an essay writing A level.

DD1 did get asked about her EP at her Cambridge interview. She was producing an artefact related to her favourite A level and was asked what she was choosing to include in this and why.