Universities deciding whether to continue online this year (updates?)

[dreamingbohemian]

I've been on a few threads this year about whether universities will fully return to face to face learning this year or stay partly online.

My university told staff today that actually all teaching will be back to normal this year. Previously we had thought to keep large lectures online but now they have ditched that to go fully back to normal.

(Apologies for not outing myself by saying which university but it's a large London uni)

Just thought it might be helpful for people/parents to know that these decisions are getting firmed up now, so contact your university if you haven't heard anything yet -- and also just some optimism that maybe universities will be more f2f than expected this year.

@SkinnyMirror sorry how is it different having 300 people in a school hall and 300 people in a lecture theatre ? Except the theatre will be much bigger. How is it different in terms of virus transmission ?
And I worked as a Uni lecturer for years so v clear of the similarities and differences. How many years have you taught in a secondary school ?

Amazing how some Unis are returning f2f (as academics on here have stated), but others can't. Why ?

Some have bigger spaces than others, some have lower numbers of students than others. Some are more cautious than others. Some VCs can afford to be more cavalier about the NSS than others.

@mumsneedwine I very often see you saying on here 'I wish my DC were at your uni/had you as a tutor' - maybe that should tell you that most of us are really decent people doing our best, and that you might want to think about doing less generalising about what universities are doing/should do/could do. YOu keep saying things are 'simple', but they're not. And maybe the people who work in universities - in all different roles - are better equipped to know when they're not, and why.

You also keep insisting it's exactly the same as schools. It isn't. Universities are made up of 18-21 (and older) people from across the country. Nobody is telling them what they can and can't do outside the classroom. And yes, a lot of them were very open about flouting the rules last year, in ways that were disturbing for people who had to be in unventilated rooms with them. The parties in halls, the to-ing and fro-ing from parental homes, the large gatherings that left them too hungover to attend the sessions that were apparently so essential to their mental health and their education and their sense of getting value for money - those were worrying, and they also quite galling.

It's not as 'v v simple' as you'd like to think, truly.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheMerrickBoy v v v v simple. Universities did tens of thousands of health care students in January in a few weeks. 1,500 a day at each of the 4 vaccine centres in one city. And most students will already be double vaccinated after anyway. [/quote]
They did. That's not the same as jabbing them on arrival whether they want it or not, and imposing conditions on those jabs.

When the January lockdown was announced, not one word was said about universities. We individually downloaded the PDF and combed through to page 17 where it said we should go online, and frantically shared it on whatsapp groups wondering how it would be interpreted and what it meant for us. We've been treated like shit too, not knowing from one day to the next what we can or can't do, or what we can be told to do.

You also need to understand how quickly things changed for universities and how the government moved the goalposts st the last minute.... last years A level fiasco had huge implications.

@SkinnyMirror the poster you're answering is a broken record on this topic. There is no point in reasoning with her. Don't waste your time.

She hasn't listened to reasoned, patient, detailed explanations from many academic MNers on this & other threads and still isn't listening.

[quote mumsneedwine]@SkinnyMirror sorry how is it different having 300 people in a school hall and 300 people in a lecture theatre ? Except the theatre will be much bigger. How is it different in terms of virus transmission ?
And I worked as a Uni lecturer for years so v clear of the similarities and differences. How many years have you taught in a secondary school ?[/quote]
I've worked in and with secondary schools for over 20 years. The subject I teach is an education based subject so when I was a practitioner I worked in schools and when I moved to working in HE I worked in education liaison so was visiting at least 3 schools a week all over the uk.

I know send students out on placement and I'm a governor at a large secondary school so I'm very well versed in how schools work and know you can't compare the two.

@ShortBacknSides

You also need to understand how quickly things changed for universities and how the government moved the goalposts st the last minute.... last years A level fiasco had huge implications.

@SkinnyMirror the poster you're answering is a broken record on this topic. There is no point in reasoning with her. Don't waste your time.

She hasn't listened to reasoned, patient, detailed explanations from many academic MNers on this & other threads and still isn't listening.

Thanks for the heads up 👍🏻 I'm beginning to see it's a fruitless task!

The parties in halls, the to-ing and fro-ing from parental homes, the large gatherings that left them too hungover to attend the sessions that were apparently so essential to their mental health and their education and their sense of getting value for money - those were worrying, and they also quite galling.

I had a couple of students as personal tutees who were so worried by the behaviour of other students, and their housemates' lack of respect for others' health, that they requested permission to return home & study remotely.

*now send ....

For those of you reluctant to return to f2f teaching can I just ask when you would feel would be the right time to do it ?

So many places are just having to adapt and mitigate as best they can and try and work with covid which isn’t going away. I really don’t understand what is so different for university’s.

I 'm not reluctant. I understand why some places aren't doing it 100%. That's their call. You need to understand that individuals' reluctancy has nothing to do with it: we'll do what we're told, and there won't be any option. I was reluctant to teach sub-par sessions on campus with social distancing because they were crap and could have been done a lot better online (I know because I did both).

I think expecting there to be no restrictions us totally unrealistic . It has to be a balance, there does however need to be proper access to ancillary facilities etc on campus such as libraries

@TheMerrickBoy no jab, no in person lectures. Not forcing anyone just making it a condition of entry to campus. They can still access on Lind lectures if they wish.

@ShortBacknSides yes I'm a broken record on this subject because it's important. The reluctance and excuses from SOME Uni staff is disgraceful. Always why it can't be done, never ideas as to how it could be. I'd be ashamed if I worked for an organisation that was not trying to return to normality as fast as possible.
Maybe why I left University lecturing snd went into schools.
@TheMerrickBoy and abusing someone who disagrees with you is not really the best academic argument is it ? Maybe you'd be better on Love Island where they like that kind of thing.

Birmingham Uni have promised all f2f. Weird how they can do it ??

I was reluctant to teach sub-par sessions on campus with social distancing because they were crap and could have been done a lot better online (I know because I did both).

Same here. Online was far superior than socially distanced teaching with masks.

@mumsneedwine

Birmingham Uni have promised all f2f. Weird how they can do it ??

Not weird. All universities are different - you can't compare.

Birmingham also said they were going to do F2F last year...

mumsneedwine not all academics are presenting excuses. They're explaining the situation in their individual universities but you seem to see any argument against a full return to f2f teaching as an excuse even when it's clearly a more effective teaching method.

It has also been reported that Birmingham senior management repeatedly told their staff not to follow government guidance on Covid safety and required lecturers who had been in close contact with students who tested positive to continue with in-person teaching. They did this until rates of infection amongst their students were almost 10 times higher than in the general population and amongst the highest rates seen anywhere in the country. At which point they moved their teaching online.

They are hardly a beacon of excellence and good practice in managing Covid.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheMerrickBoy no jab, no in person lectures. Not forcing anyone just making it a condition of entry to campus. They can still access on Lind lectures if they wish. [/quote]
Please listen. Just once. We are not allowed to do that.

@mumsneedwine, I'm sorry, how am I abusing you?

I don't really want to join the ranks of people who simply give up on you in frustration, but I'm genuinely not seeing where I have abused you. LIke others on this thread, I'd just really like you to listen in good faith and understand that we're coming at this in good faith too, and we do know about how our workplaces work.

@TheMerrickBoy
Thought this was quite rude. I am allowed an opinion or have Unis cancelled that too

ShortBacknSides
You also need to understand how quickly things changed for universities and how the government moved the goalposts st the last minute.... last years A level fiasco had huge implications.

@SkinnyMirror the poster you're answering is a broken record on this topic. There is no point in reasoning with her. Don't waste your time.

She hasn't listened to reasoned, patient, detailed explanations from many academic MNers on this & other threads and still isn't listening.
Thanks for the heads up 👍🏻
I'm beginning to see it's a fruitless task!

Oh right... but I didn't say any of that, did I?