How on Earth do a level lower achievers get to uni with the grades that are being asked?

[NCTDN]

If I wanted to go to uni now, I'd have no chance. In my day, I needed three E grades to get into teaching, from which I've had a fabulous career.
DD is very lucky and looking at places asking for 3As (Not teaching) but I'm so shocked at how high everywhere asks for. I went to what was primarily a teacher training college and even that is asking for 3 alleged at grade b.
So my question is, what do teenagers do these days if they get grades C D or E? It must be so disheartening.

It's just that you haven't said you have older children, work in a uni, teach, have your own qualifications . Of course anyone can have an opinion violet but I haven't seen you on these boards before and now here you are, seemingly very invested in educational standards and making massive sweeping generalisations.

The very best A stars are still remarkable. In many ways better and the A grades are good too. As many have said, multiple factors have led to the rises in A level grades.

I couldn't comment on the rise in top degrees, as I don't claim to know much about standards in HE.

There is certainly grade inflation which is why we needed A stars and there are more firsts. It is just as it is and an employer now comparing an older candidate with certain grades and a new one will just look at it in the round and do a round of other tests too once their initial sifting criteria is sorted out. It is not fair on young people today to go on about how things were in the past as all they can deal with is the situation as it is now.

There will always be ways to assess people. It is not easy getting those first graduate jobs or work experience but after a few years of working it tends to be your last deal or the amount of business you generated for that employer or what you invented in the lab which counts more than at school. It all tends to come out in the wash at the end of the day.

Of course anyone can have an opinion violet but I haven't seen you on these boards before and now here you are, seemingly very invested in educational standards and making massive sweeping generalisations.

I just stumbled across this thread and felt that I'd like to add my opinions. I don't think I've made any massive and sweeping generalisations. I've simply stated that there has been a very large increase in grade inflation especially at degree level and that I worry that this undermines confidence and trust in University education, especially given the high cost to pupils.

You really have violet and many times people have tried to explain things and you have ignored them.

It was you who first said there had been massive grade inflation which is plainly an exaggeration and generalisation.

What undermines confidence is some people in he public undermining young people's qualifications based on little knowledge or evidence. I think most employers have a more nuanced view.

And, actually degree inflation was only brought up very recently on the thread (by you, I think).

My mum had an interview to do architecture in the early 70s at Newcastle university and after her interview had a conditional offer of EE - (she got all Bs I think ) i suppose it would have gone in her portfolio as well but possibly the days of uni interviews changed things - I don't think many degrees other than medical/ health / teaching and oxbridge do interviews any more do they?

Hardly any, although they seem to be creeping back. Manchester has been doing interviews for popular courses for some years and Warwick seems to be bringing them back.

And, actually degree inflation was only brought up very recently on the thread (by you, I think).

It was actually mentioned much earlier.

But I'm sorry if I offended or annoyed anyone. I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this subject in future.

N = Not quite or Nearl

I am very proud of mine

*Nearly

I would be fucking furious if I found out my child was being taught by someone so badly qualified

in my experience academic achievement has little or no bearing on how people perform in the workplace. And with teaching, subject knowledge and ability to impart that knowledge is what matters, not what you got in your A levels.

It is true that it's a buyers market and many Unis will take grads below the offer in August. However, unless you're going through Clearing you need the offer in the first place and that's why predicted grades are so important.

A levels are effectively a currency. Lesser Unis cannot demand so much and have to be more flexible on offers day. Yes, one that made offers of CCC won't expect to fill many places with CCC but to be taking a range of Ds and Es. Those offering BBB will expect many candidates to have at least 1 C in the mix of their results.

When it comes to results day, Unis need to fill up to get the money in. They would rather accept someone they have already offered to and who made the uni their 'firm' choice on their UCAS form and so is likely to accept and turn up, than take the risk if turning them down in hope of someone else who will have higher grades, but might not materialise. Filling places fast is the name of the game, because the more days that pass, the less good candidates remain.

So actually, I think the grades suggested in prospectuses are a bit misleading in terms of what people on the courses actually have. In the majority of cases it's a bit lower. For Oxbridge and one or two other places and very popular courses it's the opposite and people actually have far in excess of the 3 As mentioned or made as the standard offer. For Oxbridge, students at the application stage sometimes see the offer listed in the prospectus as AAA and if they are scraping close to that kind of prediction think they stand a chance...but don't realise the profile of those who actually go is much higher than that.

Not everyone can be a high flier. Middling achievers can get to RG Unis if they pick less popular courses. And there are lots of Unis which take much lower grades and most people who want to go seem to find a place. Whether it's worth it for the level of debt and job opportunities from some of those courses and whether all who go are really suited to degree level education or degree level education at 18 is a different question. Lots of the lower achievers, especially when they have been immature and not worked hard or faced particular issues, would benefit from waiting a couple of years or longer and going when they are actually ready to study hard and will get the most out of it.

@looptheloopinahulahoop

I would be fucking furious if I found out my child was being taught by someone so badly qualified

in my experience academic achievement has little or no bearing on how people perform in the workplace. And with teaching, subject knowledge and ability to impart that knowledge is what matters, not what you got in your A levels.

Ok. But in my experience, which is twelve years as a teacher, including as a head of department, and including teaching Alevel, that level of academic achievement is going to mean a serious lack of subject knowledge, poor written communication skills, a difficulty in learning new skills and information, and therefore a much reduced likelihood of being a successful and inspiring teacher. I would not shortlist someone for a teaching job with those as their only a levels, and I would not want someone teaching my child with the same poor level of qualifications.

Exception being someone who sat their alevels 30 odd years ago and has masses of relevant experience. Otherwise, no.

And on the issue of grade inflation, over the long term, the absolutely has been some. It was reined in by controls on grades, but it is there. Quite simply, the additions of A and L9 in itself is evidence of it and the proportions who gained A from the first years until now has increased. The numbers who get Firsts in their degrees is substantially higher than it was 20 years ago. Surely these are just statistical facts.

In lots of ways the students are better taught....so perhaps to a certain point they deserve those higher grades and in that sense it's not inflationary even though more top grades are given. Specifications have become harder (some say far too hard) and students need to know more and are tested with terminal exams again. All these things have then resulted in lower grade boundaries, because not enough could achieve really high marks on these papers....suggests something not quite right with system. The grade inflation doesn't lie here with the new specifications, but probably 10-15 years ago and in the time I'd modular exams and multi re-sits which did significantly boost the proportion of top grades.

Schools generally teach in a more focused way now, exam requirements are understood and rigorously taught which allow students to jump through hoops and achieve the grades. Are they cleverer....probably not, but often they are better taught and they are certainly more well versed in exam technique than when we did our A Levels and exactly what the examiner was looking for was very hazy.

I agree that an A today at A Level, or a L7 at GCSE is probably what was a B 20-25 years ago. The A and the L9 are still very impressive results, but large proportions of the cohort get A_B or L7-9 and at the lower end, these are not students who would have gained the top grades 25 years ago. But maybe that doesn't matter anyway.

Surely don't go to university? Maybe they have talents that lie outside the realm of academics?

Most people get degrees that aren't much use and a great deal of debt to boot. Look up the graduate tax. A degree for its own sake is a bad idea unless a lifelong debt doesn't bother you.

You didn't offend anyone violet.I felt like you weren't listening to people's input is all.

I always remember asking one of my A Level teachers what they had gained in their A Levels. We were a class of students hoping for As and Bs in the early 1990s. We loved our teacher although suspected she sometimes didn't know all that much and fobbed us off, but when she to,d us she had 2 Es we all went rather quiet....it didn't instill confidence, put it that way.

Grades do mean different things now and experience does count for a lot. However, lots of schools will look carefully at the qualifications of applicant teachers and will not be keen to interview those who have grades far below what the typical student in that school will achieve or aim for. These are the schools that can be picky. Some don't have that luxury and in some subjects are just thrilled to get applications from someone qualified in the subject, and often have to take someone who isn't qualified in that subject and perhaps who doesn't have good grades.

Just go to a met?
My course at Sheffield Hallam wanted I think 260/280 UCAS points which was equivalent to BBC-BCC I think. They accepted General Studies towards the points though, and your AS grade.
So I got B (in general studies) CEE and got in.

I would not shortlist someone for a teaching job with those as their only a levels, and I would not want someone teaching my child with the same poor level of qualifications. Do you have the luxury of choice where you are?

I once shortlisted for a headship and three of the applicants had really bad A Level results. They had made it to headship and deputy headship regardless. But none of them did get the job. Unfortunately, we had five applicants in total.

At my current school we have advertised two English jobs(apparently the whole country is rolling in English teachers). One (young) applicant CDD at A Level. It is all a bit of a sorry state of affairs

We did get someone last year with 3As at A Level and a RG degree! And she is indeed an excellent teacher with good subject knowledge and a positive attitude to (and ability to) learning more

@Tambora

Surely if you are only getting C, D or E grades then you aren't really bright enough to go to university and study at degree level.

That is not true, I know quite a few who did very poorly at A level, but achieved 2:1 and even 1sts at degree level

You are showing your age with that number of UCAS point fairy! They have changed the scaling. The vast majority of unis ignore ASs now and don't accept general studies.

I think you could probably now get palace at UFCB or maybe Solent/ Beds/ USW with Es at A Level on a non foundation course in soem subjects, but it is rare.

Agree piggy,
The OP certainly is in the right job as she has been teaching for decades! I’m sure she has met every teaching standard necessary over the years. When the OP sat A-levels there was no other means of level 3 assessment. Had she done an advanced BTEC for example she may have got distinctions.

@Piggywaspushed age 24?

And to those who say they wouldn't want those with low qualifications teaching their kids, well perhaps they haven't realised the exodus from teaching or trouble recruiting.

Sadly the reality is that until the problems in teaching in terms of workload, government attitude and pay are sorted out, there will be a limited number of the most qualified graduates applying and particularly in subects where they could earn much more and probably avoid a lot of the crap by doing something else.

I work in a school where subject specialists teach the classes and the vast majority have degrees from RG or Oxbridge. Quite a few have PhDs too (and I know academics are often not the best school teachers) but it is an academic, selective school and it's independent and can afford to pay more and attract staff and if they interview and see 2 excellent candidates in a shortage subject, will employ them both anyway, because it's good to get good people when they are available. It's a luxury most schools don't have. I know the reality for lots of exam classes can be a steady stream of supply teachers or 4 teachers over a GCSE course, or timetabling which means multiple teachers each doing 1 or 2 periods, so 2 or 3 teachers for a GCSE. Sadly, I think it will get much worse before anything SI done to address the fundamental underlying issues causing this.

Really fairy? I am trying to recall when they changed UCAS points. Probably you were the last but one year of ASs counting towards full A Level!