How on Earth do a level lower achievers get to uni with the grades that are being asked?

[NCTDN]

If I wanted to go to uni now, I'd have no chance. In my day, I needed three E grades to get into teaching, from which I've had a fabulous career.
DD is very lucky and looking at places asking for 3As (Not teaching) but I'm so shocked at how high everywhere asks for. I went to what was primarily a teacher training college and even that is asking for 3 alleged at grade b.
So my question is, what do teenagers do these days if they get grades C D or E? It must be so disheartening.

The OP certainly is in the right job as she has been teaching for decades! I’m sure she has met every teaching standard necessary over the years. When the OP sat A-levels there was no other means of level 3 assessment. Had she done an advanced BTEC for example she may have got distinctions.

BTEC has been around for decades, it was originally two different examining boards, Business Education Council (BEC) and Technical education council (TEC) there were originally Ordinary National Certificates and Ordinary National Diplomas (Level 3) and HNC / HND.

I did BTEC National 1988 - 90, my paternal grandfather did his HNC in the 1950s

@Soma

Here's a link to the institutions awarding the highest number of 2.1's.

thetab.com/uk/2020/11/24/these-are-the-50-unis-you-should-have-gone-to-if-you-wanted-that-easy-2-1-183945

Which includes many fabled Russell Group universities.

Wow. That is a lot of 2.1s.

Although it's likely there's a correlation between being smart and good at exams, getting into a 'good' university and being awarded a 2.1.

When I graduated in 1995, a 2.1 was still regarded as 'very, very good' rather than the norm. Much more of an even split between 2.1s and 2.2s in those days.

It was much more unusual in those days to get a First.

What is the list of firsts? 2:1 only tells you most dc that go there are bright enough to do the course and work hard enough to achieve good results. Firsts might be a bit different although the very bright and dedicated will still get them. But it doesn’t tell you the value of them. What do employers think?. A LSE 1st is worth a great deal more than a 1st in the same subject from a low tariff university I think and earnings will tell the same story.

When I’m doing interviews for graduates for our team - global corporate finance- we interview blind so I don’t know what Uni they went to

@Parker231
Yes but you probably set tests that only the best candidates pass. This is why recruitment has not changed that much and surveys still find university matters. So does intelligence, and often the two go together. That’s why, although some employers try to widen access, they don’t employ the post 92 candidates in the end. The CCC A level candidate will rarely cut it against a top candidate from a top university . What percentage of candidates do you recruit from post 92 universities out of interest? What do your stats look like across all university sectors?

Our interview process is tough. Hundreds apply. Online tests, a day long of group exercises and if you get through that I see them for a one to one interview. Similar process in the other two countries I need graduates each year. For the U.K. team I need between four and eight graduates a year. Last year one from Oxford, one Portsmouth, one East Anglia and one Nottingham.

It is definitely much harder for graduates now. Employers have many more candidates with a much wider range of degrees. I (graduated from LSE with a 1st in 95) applied through the Uni milk round process. I applied to four employers for their graduate scheme. Got four offers and chose the one which sounded the most interesting - am still there.
I feel that today’s A level and degree students are put under much more pressure with every stage much more competitive. I’m very relieved that DT’s have their degrees (graduates of 2020) and DS finishes his Masters next month

So you were 50% RG. 25% ex poly and one a pre 92. So no post 92 at all. I commend you for the spread but it’s still backing up the stats that RG gets you further!

In my DDs career, it’s 40% Oxbridge, 50% RG and 10% the rest. So it’s tough!

DH got a 2:2 back in the mid 70s. Was offered 5 jobs. Didn’t stay long in the employed sector. Made way more running his own engineering consultancy! What is noticeable from his uni friends is the ones who made big money, had businesses. They had more to offer than a just a degree! Interesting that no employer ever spotted it!

I thought ex polys were post 92 universities. What is the difference between a post 92 university and an ex poly?

I am pretty sure Portsmouth is considered a post 92 university.

My mistake! However it’s still 50% RG and they are easily the smallest number of universities - however you label the other 2. Lots of people do differentiate between the new universities built in the 60s and the polytechnics. So UEA, Surrey, Sussex etc are not the same as former polys as their “roots” are different.

If Parker’s firm is institution blind, then all this really tells us is that on the whole the better candidates (for that sort of job) go to pre-92 unis. They didn’t get the job because they’d been to those unis, but they were probably at those unis because they were better academically and therefore more suited to that type of work.

But there are lots of bright candidates who under achieve at A Level for whatever reason or are just late developers and end up at lower tariff unis. I worked at a big 4 accountancy firm for nearly 20 years. The three best recruits I worked with were from Coventry, Derby and Aston. They were much better than all our Birmingham/Warwick/Nottingham grads! I’ve no idea if they went to lower tariff unis because their A Level results were low or they wanted to stay local or they just liked those unis but it didn’t hold them back.

@RampantIvy

I thought ex polys were post 92 universities. What is the difference between a post 92 university and an ex poly?

Ex-polys are post 1992 universities.

However, there were also higher education colleges and teacher training colleges which have become universities since 1992 as well. Examples off the top of my head are Winchester, Chester, Leeds Trinity, Liverpool Hope, Edgehill and York St John.

The three best recruits I worked with were from Coventry, Derby and Aston

Aston is a pre-1992 university. But I am not surprised that some candidates for jobs will be better from ex-polys because the courses are often more work-focused. Especially from Coventry which seems to have some really good courses.

Yes, I know Aston’s older but it’s not really a top 40 uni I don’t think? I agree Coventry seems good - although this particular recruit had a sport science degree so not really relevant to our workplace! He did have some post-uni experience. I suppose my point is that ‘academically clever’ isn’t always the same as ‘workplace clever’. And there are lots of bright students at less well-regarded universities.

chop "@Xenia out of interest- does your son who is a good delivery driver earn enough to live the life he wants/ support a family etc? " It certainly was not my recommendation. With that job and before with royal mail the pay is about £22k a year full time (he doesn't do over time as his aim is to reduce not increase hours but could earn more if he did). He earns enough for the life he wants. I helped him buy his house. Like I do he has very simple needs. I don't think he wants a girl friend but I think he would make a good father other than in the financial sense.

Lots of people earn £22k a year or even less - £15k or under minimum wage or less and lead perfectly happy lives although it would not be my choice as it tends to reduce your choices in life.

The IFS has done studies on incomes after university and those attending RG earn more. Obviously there is blurring at the edges and certainly non RG do have some excellent courses. The difficulty comes with academic courses where grads compete for jobs with the best from top RG universities. Law is a notable area where RG wins out. Ditto with economics grads and high earning grad jobs. Other degrees such as nursing or teaching will not have discernible differences. It would be odd if most of the high achievers were not at RG universities as their degrees ask for higher tariffs.

Agreed, the RG unis are bound to have more higher-A Level achievers. That does seem to correlate with getting the high paid jobs in law and economics.

From my experience the higher achievers don't necessarily become the best tax advisors or accountants though! And they don't necessarily become the best paid either (the two things are definitely not the same! ) The director of my team at the big 4 firm went to the local ex-poly (not a particularly well thought of one!).

Thanks for the response @Xenia . Good for him

@MadameMinimes

What universities put as their “typical offer” and what they actually accept on results day are often two very different things. I’ve seen places make offers of AAB and then take CCD. I’ve even heard of students with UUU offered a place with a foundation year. It’s a buyers market and universities are mostly desperate for bums on seats. Apart from medicine/dentistry etc. and a few really competitive units and courses the grades accepted are nowhere near as high as universities want you to believe. As UCAS advisers we now have access to data on what grade universities actually took students with last year. It’s quite an eye-opener.

Yep. I work in admissions at a uni and this is absolutely true.

I’m not interested in what Uni someone went to. I need those who can pass their accountancy exams first time whilst working full time, academic in the areas that matter to our business - usually maths, finance, business studies, economics etc, team player, interested in the work of our clients. Although we interview blind as to which Uni they went to we usually require a 2.1 or a 1st to try and manage the numbers of applicants.
Some of the best members of my team didn’t go to Uni but joined as an apprentice after A levels. They then study for their accountancy exams whilst working. They qualify quicker than the Uni graduates.

Di you know what? Ironically, I think it matters more in teaching, certainly where subject specialism / academic teaching (A Level) is required.

At many universities the 2:1 and above degrees are more than 85% of awards so you don’t cut out many by that qualification to apply. That’s why your company wastes time looking at 400 applications for 4 positions. When I was doing my CIPD qualification, we would have said ploughing through that number was very time consuming and should be avoided.

I would also add that DH employs Civil Engineers. University attended isn’t always a good yardstick there either! Often the candidates from old polys are very good. As in many companies they administer tests and talk with grads about the possible solutions to the problems they have posed. However he would be very concerned about lower grade A levels and whether the person can really do the work eventually without constant supervision. However it’s certainly true that RG isn’t necessary to be a very good engineer.

@Piggywaspushed
What matters more for teachers? I agree A levels grades do matter for teaching. However an Oxbridge grad won’t earn more than a UWE grad when starting out.

So my question is, what do teenagers do these days if they get grades C D or E? It must be so disheartening.

My ds got something like ACD, he didnt get his place retook 2 a levels as an independent student at the same school and ended up with ABB. Went to RG uni and dropped out 2nd year. He has ended up in the pharmaceutical industry as a technologist. They set him up with a level 4 apprenticeship which he has just passed and they have suggested he does a 5 year part time degree this year. He is on a far higher wage than any of our friends dc who are older with degrees

DD is just finishing an OT degree, dissertation went in last week. She tried A levels but didnt do well so moved to the local tech and did a BTEC in Health and Social Care, got in to the top uni in the country for her course . She has already been offered an OT rotation job.