Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

It's not the case that science costs £9250 and everything else is less

This.

If you want to set tuition fees at what a degree actually costs, with a proper proportion of general overheads, then all degree tuition fees would rise, as the current fee doesn't actually cover the cost of any degree, or only just covers in cases of "cheap" degrees.

But such "cheap" degrees are only cheap because they don't need expensive equipment or consumables. They are generally not cheap in terms of staff requirements and staff time.

@DelBocaVista

Some were saying it was all courses at their uni.

Nobody has said this. We've said that some students are back and for some universities this equates to quite a large number.

What number?

@changi

I already said that above. Pls read the thread.

You said...

"That’s my understanding - unless medics and final year ‘practical’ courses such as chem and music."

Please read your own posts.

This is the case at my dd uni 🤷‍♀️ which ones do you know that are already teaching all years face to face?

What number?

Do you really expect me to know the exact details of close to 200 individual universities??

I know my university is allowing on campus teaching for practical and creative courses and for those that have specific professional body requirements. That will be a sizable number as we offer a high number of professional degrees as well as science and creative courses.

When I asked DH he said that there are 8000 students at his uni who are having on campus teaching.

Does anyone know figs on students being taught f2f? And what unis are doing blended in sept? Where should students look for that info? It’s all so vague

@Newgirls

Does anyone know figs on students being taught f2f? And what unis are doing blended in sept? Where should students look for that info? It’s all so vague

You would only be able to find this information out directly from individual universities.

@Newgirls if you have a child at uni - they can ask their department. Policies are being updated and sent out to students all the time. But in the same way, as I dont know what every individual business is planning on doing, there is no one list that you can look through. But I can assure you that no uni is trying to mess students around on purpose.

This is the case at my dd uni 🤷‍♀️ which ones do you know that are already teaching all years face to face?

At my uni, my department and other departments with practical content. Final year undergrads probably less so, as teaching for them has generally finished.

I can't speak for other institutions, but I doubt that we are unique.

Forgot to add that depending on the uni - lots finished most of their teaching at the end of March. So my dept wont have any students back till Sept.

Would gov not know what unis are doing and how many students are back? Unions?

@FHOJfinf18

Forgot to add that depending on the uni - lots finished most of their teaching at the end of March. So my dept wont have any students back till Sept.

Yes that’s the case with my dd Scottish uni

@Newgirls

Would gov not know what unis are doing and how many students are back? Unions?

Nope. Why would they? Universities are autonomous institutions not government organisations.

which ones do you know that are already teaching all years face to face?

What a lot of HE bashing parents don't seem to understand is that universities are independent institutions. There is no national curriculum.

And furthermore, we are subject to the law of the land - together with the fact that government pronouncements on HE are an afterthought. We are often having to develop our practices via reading press releases eg. the 3 day pivot to total online teaching in January 2021. There was no consultation with HE leaders. We did not know until the gov't announcement what HE would be required to do.

Since at least February 2020, university staff at all levels - from senior management teams to department teaching & admin staff - have been developing plans & scenarios to meet several possible sets of national guidance. We still are.

The communication with students at my institution has been regular & thorough, and has explained our reasons for doing what we are doing - this is at both institutional & departmental level. I suspect many students are ignoring emails, and venting to parents.

And as for "confined to rooms" - all students in university or private housing are in designated bubbles or households. I live adjacent to a an area of student rental houses in my town, and I see groups of students all the time - outdoor parties and groups in town.

Confined to rooms was eg last Autumn if someone on your corridor had CV19 but you didn't. Peopel were in effect locked up in a tiny cell for 2 weeks often with not enough food provided. Some did not even get the one hour a day of exercise prisoners are allowed and that had they been at parents' houses would have been possible in their large gardens in large detached houses. They just want some certainty for September - will eg universities push the boundaries, litigated against the state or at the least knowing guidance is not the law speak to university lawyers about what freedoms they can allow students this September.

will eg universities push the boundaries, litigated against the state or at the least knowing guidance is not the law speak to university lawyers about what freedoms they can allow students this September.

You keep pushing litigation.

Are you a lawyer by any chance?

I don't think litigation is a ridiculous thing to suggest to be honest.
What are the options, complaints procedure, protests, and ultimately litigation.

The universities need a kick up the arse!

The universities need a kick up the arse!

It was being suggested that the universities instigate the litigation.

I get that unis are autonomous but they have a uni minister? Unions. Journals sharing info and data. Chancellor meetings etc. I am sure chancellors know exactly what other unis are up to.

@Newgirls

I get that unis are autonomous but they have a uni minister? Unions. Journals sharing info and data. Chancellor meetings etc. I am sure chancellors know exactly what other unis are up to.

Well if a journalist wants to phone up every university I'm sure they'd get a reasonably accurate answer. But it's not particularly newsworthy so no one has! There's no great secret. Trawl uni websites if you're interested - most have a coronavirus FAQ page, and weekly student bulletins.

For most students teaching stops at Easter anyway - May and June is exam season, science and practicals where timetabled for summer term are probably now in person, plus those where the professional body requires it. Otherwise lectures are probably on line as we're not allowed back till 17 May.

(The universities minister has less use than a chocolate teapot btw...As does her boss. And the union.)

@Newgirls

I get that unis are autonomous but they have a uni minister? Unions. Journals sharing info and data. Chancellor meetings etc. I am sure chancellors know exactly what other unis are up to.

They might know what the other universities in their mission group are doing or their local competitors if they have chosen to share that information but do VCs know what the other 150+ universities are doing?? No.

As for journals? That's not what journals are for. Did you mean journalists? If so, they'd have to contact each university to ask those questions.

The uni minister seems to follow rather than lead. I wonder what she does do?

I was thinking education journals - not sure students would read those though!

@Xenia

Confined to rooms was eg last Autumn if someone on your corridor had CV19 but you didn't. Peopel were in effect locked up in a tiny cell for 2 weeks often with not enough food provided. Some did not even get the one hour a day of exercise prisoners are allowed and that had they been at parents' houses would have been possible in their large gardens in large detached houses. They just want some certainty for September - will eg universities push the boundaries, litigated against the state or at the least knowing guidance is not the law speak to university lawyers about what freedoms they can allow students this September.

Agree. Unis went above and beyond the legal requirements. One person in my son's flat tested positive, so they were all locked down for the 2 weeks, even though the lad who tested positive went straight home (against the rules). They weren't even allowed out of their flat, kitchen and corridor, so weren't allowed to exercise. The only concession was that the smokers were allowed out to smoke as long as they stayed within their quadrangle or other adjacent outdoors areas around their block. Why was it "safe" for smokers to go out but not the non-smokers?

Same with their college common rooms. They've been closed and locked throughout, so the Uni didn't even attempt to open them with social distancing in place, didn't even allow flatmates (in their own bubble) to use the college facilities they still had to pay for.

@Newgirls

I was thinking education journals - not sure students would read those though!

Journals are for academic papers. I assume you mean the specialist press - Times Higher, WonkHE etc? Again journalists write about this stuff, but a survey of how many students are in person one week in May doesn't really reveal much.

[quote dreamingbohemian]@Stirmecrazy that is completely unacceptable. I'd advise your daughter to email her tutor first and ask why the delay -- sometimes things genuinely slip through the cracks. If there's no answer she should email her programme head, then department head if need be.

I do feel very bad for all the students who are not being treated well. I would just ask people not to assume that means all universities and department and staff aren't treating students well. It's like with the endless teacher bashing threads during lockdown -- some teachers and schools were genuinely awful, but people were rightly called out when they said all teachers were lazy and schools preferred online. It's clear that some universities have been awful but honestly not all of us have been.

If anyone wants suggestions on how their DC should word emails or proceed with complaints I'm sure we'd be happy to advise here.[/quote]
@dreamingbohemian . Thank you for your kind offer on advise for complaints regarding delay on feedback of assignments . I have just been quizzing my Dd about this . Apparently she was advised the delay was due to sickness on staff which is understandable except the same excuse was used for the previous assignment as well. She has now got the assignment back, it was 6 weeks altogether Not sure if there is anything we can do with this except suck it up I guess
More scary though is I asked her wether she preferred online lectures (even though she has never had F2F) as a lot are saying student do. I discovered that roughly 70% of the lectures she are watching are pre recorded from live lectures the previous year so not even fresh lectures reproduced for online . So she gets all the noise from the lecture theatre, gather in groups etc. This cannot be acceptable surely. Can anyone let me know if this is happening at their uni.