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Original poster

Another year online?

785 replies

Ellewoods20 · 05/05/2021 17:42

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

OP posts:
DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:37

High profile academics eg jo Grady and Stephen Reicher have made it clear they do not want to return to f2f. Many academics on here have said their unis were making plans to move towards blended models before covid. Please rtt!

Those two people are not representative of academics. Not one academic I know agrees with them.

Academics have always wfh part of the week - we enjoy having the best of both worlds.

It has been explained to you numerous times what blended means and it does not mean all online so I suggest you read the full thread.

Etulosba · 11/05/2021 08:37

I'd say an hour lecture content probably takes about 5 hours all in.

I took me well over a day to adapt each of my lectures. One of my modules has 30 hours of lectures.

My degree was a while ago but I do not see the point of being in person for the large lectures given there was zero interaction or opportunity for interaction

I try and my mine interactive, even with classes of 150 (in theory) in order to give them an incentive to turn up in person rather than just watch the recording. I use a lot of props that I pass around and have attempted to replicate that for purely online delivery by making extra videos. Just editing those to add pointers, captions etc and then splicing them in to the main body of the lecture takes hours and hours.

I have a day of face-to-face teaching today. Seminars with masks, visors and social distancing that I have to police. What fun!

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:38

@DelBocaVista

High profile academics eg jo Grady and Stephen Reicher have made it clear they do not want to return to f2f. Many academics on here have said their unis were making plans to move towards blended models before covid. Please rtt!

Those two people are not representative of academics. Not one academic I know agrees with them.

Academics have always wfh part of the week - we enjoy having the best of both worlds.

It has been explained to you numerous times what blended means and it does not mean all online so I suggest you read the full thread.

Rubbish. Jo Grady was voted for by uni staff.
DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:39

@Newgirls

Nastiness? I have read racism on here from so called academics. I have seen very little about true support for students who have lost out so much. It mostly seems to be justifying a preference for this new working pattern rather than an acceptance that by aug/sept there will be little justification for staying blended.
Before you start arguing against blended I suggest you to try to understand what that actually means in practice. My blended course will have 70% on campus activity. How is that me not wanting leave home!!
Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:39

@DelBocaVista

High profile academics eg jo Grady and Stephen Reicher have made it clear they do not want to return to f2f. Many academics on here have said their unis were making plans to move towards blended models before covid. Please rtt!

Those two people are not representative of academics. Not one academic I know agrees with them.

Academics have always wfh part of the week - we enjoy having the best of both worlds.

It has been explained to you numerous times what blended means and it does not mean all online so I suggest you read the full thread.

So patronising. I know what blended means. I know it is being used as open to interpretation by individual departments and unis. As many here have said.
DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:41

Rubbish. Jo Grady was voted for by uni staff.

Who are members of the union - lots of people have left the union because of Jo Grady and numbers were low anyway.
I'm not a member of the union and fundamentally disagree with their standpoint on this.

IrmaFayLear · 11/05/2021 08:42

It is particularly nauseating to read posts suggesting online is “fairer” to students such as those from abroad and the disabled/unwell. Disabled students do not want to be incarcerated in their bedrooms. They like to meet people too, you know! Using the disabled to justify a desire to wfh.... well.

Thoroughly agree with Newgirls about the union stance. A while ago I kept asking a poster to comment on whether they supported the union’s demands to remain online, and they wouldn’t reply. Says it all really.

Etulosba · 11/05/2021 08:47

High profile academics eg jo Grady and Stephen Reicher have made it clear they do not want to return to f2f. Many academics on here have said their unis were making plans to move towards blended models before covid.

I was/am and I make no apology for it. Please remember that blended includes face-to-face. It is not fully online.

Etulosba · 11/05/2021 08:52

Rubbish. Jo Grady was voted for by uni staff.

In 2019. Pre covid and her views on teaching delivery post covid were known.

Etulosba · 11/05/2021 08:53

And before her views...

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:54

Thoroughly agree with Newgirls about the union stance. A while ago I kept asking a poster to comment on whether they supported the union’s demands to remain online, and they wouldn’t reply. Says it all really.

So you think that one poster is representative of all academics?

Most universities were moving to a blended model ( which includes f2f - otherwise it's called distance learning) prior to covid because research shows us it's most effective and it contributes to the employability agenda.

It certainly doesn't mean we all want to stay at home!!

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:55

Using the disabled to justify a desire to wfh.... well.

I must have missed that one. Who said that?

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:57

Pre covid those of us who delivered blended courses still did the online teaching bit on campus - not sure how that fits with the 'I'm engineering more blended learning so I can stay at home' argument.

WFH days were always research or admin days.

Zippy1510 · 11/05/2021 08:58

I am a university lecturer and it’s clear that we won’t ever go back to the way it was previously. Universities have wanted to operate using online lectures for a while- staff generally don’t want to do it this way as universities that have already done this report a massive drop in student attendance. We will be doing large lectures as recordings then all seminars, tutorials and labs face to face from now on and I expect most other universities will be running a similar model.

Etulosba · 11/05/2021 08:59

Thoroughly agree with Newgirls about the union stance. A while ago I kept asking a poster to comment on whether they supported the union’s demands to remain online, and they wouldn’t reply. Says it all really.

It doesn't actually say anything at all, except that that single poster didn't want to reply to your questions.

If you had asked me, I would have said no, I don't support it. To put my money where my mouth is, I am back on campus teaching face-to-face now.

Does that say it all?

IrmaFayLear · 11/05/2021 09:07

Granted, it was on a previous thread and of course not all academics are angling to wfh full time. But there are some posters who are coming up with every excuse in the book to justify what is to them a preferable new normal. And there was definitely a poster using disabled students (and single mothers, I recall) as a reason for why it was “fairer” for all university to be online. I don’t think they appeared to be in a very, er, esteemed institution from what I could gather so perhaps that makes a difference to people’s attitudes towards students.

dreamingbohemian · 11/05/2021 09:34

On the last thread like this, people were saying that online is rubbish and no one likes it. So some of us pointed out that while yes, it is rubbish for a lot of people, some people do enjoy and prefer online because of their circumstances, such as long-term illness, disability, childcare issues, etc.

This was then turned into 'you are using the disabled as an excuse so that you can stay online forever and not have to go back to work' Hmm

I genuinely don't understand why people think we are arguing to stay at home. Every academic on this thread has said they want to go back to f2f. These are just straw man arguments now.

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 09:39

Well I work at a university which MN wouldn't class as an esteemed institution (this thread just keeps on giving!!) and for lots of our students a blended approach is preferable - we get lots of commuter students and we offer some quite niche subjects which have seen record numbers year due to the increased online content.

The thing to remember is that getting a course validated is a very time consuming and labour intensive process. Moving a course online (or even to a blended approach) requires re-validation. A course leader needs to be able to justify the decision, prove they've done market research, demonstrate how all the content and teaching hours will be covered - plus at my institution you have to show you are experienced in delivering online and complete a module in developing online pedagogy.

These things aren't done on a whim and an academy wanting to wfh permanently just wouldn't be considered.

titchy · 11/05/2021 09:43

Sorry but I have to laugh at the notion of 'Jo Grady says this therefore all academics must think the same' 🤣

I can assure you the vast majority of academics hold Jo Grady in similar regard to Gavin Williamson. Members are leaving the UCU in droves! Sadly the union hasn't represented its members for a long time.

Phphion · 11/05/2021 09:47

I don't think people are coming up with excuses. They are simply explaining the complexity of the decision-making processes and the different factors, and often competing priorities and interests, that universities have to take into account when deciding how, when and where they can or should teach.

If it matters particularly, I am a member of UCU, didn't vote for Jo Grady, and (along with the majority of voting union members at my university and quite a few others) voted against taking industrial action to force the university to stop face-to-face teaching.

Much of my posting is done when I am attending really tedious meetings.

Stirmecrazy · 11/05/2021 09:55

@Zippy1510

I am a university lecturer and it’s clear that we won’t ever go back to the way it was previously. Universities have wanted to operate using online lectures for a while- staff generally don’t want to do it this way as universities that have already done this report a massive drop in student attendance. We will be doing large lectures as recordings then all seminars, tutorials and labs face to face from now on and I expect most other universities will be running a similar model.
Zippy1510. Will the large lectures as recording be video capture from previous lectures in which case 2 years old (what my DD received this year for 70%) not appropriate for online and hard to watch or new material adapted to online and suitable for purpose . I am desperate for F2F lectures to return but I am tired of banging my head against the wall for that . Lecturers have accused us of being moany/whingy. But a lot of the online content being handed out is not suitable for purpose . Lecturers have told me this content is time coming to produce and needs high tech equipment . I think if unis insist on online next term if F2F is available as an alternative they should at least ensure online lecture is fresh material suitable for purpose otherwise they are penalising the student and where is the duty of care if a better alternative is available (ie F2F) I would like this written in the uni contract this is what I am pushing . Obviously if they plan for F2F and uk legislation stops it fair enough needs must and we are back to critical teaching again. I too believe that unis are pushing online as an agenda fine but at least maintain standards last year was acceptable as it was pandemic conditions but if online is plan A next year this needs to be addressed . This is not me being whingy this is me wanting educational parity compared with previous years pre covid. Yes it was difficult to complain despite standards being variable this year but I believe students will have every right to complain if online is not up to standard (2year old on campus lectures not appropriate, PDF slides nothing else! this year when/if F2F is legally allowed.
dreamingbohemian · 11/05/2021 10:03

@Stirmecrazy I completely agree, any online elements going forward should be good quality. I think this is one thing we all agree on actually!

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 10:10

I think most of us have agreed that using content from previous years is not necessarily good practice and have talked at length about producing new content that works specifically online.

We agree that it should be high quality- many of us are just saying that online /blended doesn't necessarily mean poor quality which seems to be the assumption here.

PantTwizzler · 11/05/2021 10:17

I know this doesn't apply to many institutions since most have stopped teaching by now (itself quite a puzzle, but that's another thread) but I'll be interested to see what effect, if any, there is of yesterday's announcement re in-person teaching from 17 May. DD has teaching right to the end of term, having done exams last term. DS has exams from 7 June, so there's plenty of time for his supervisors to salvage some scraps of in-person teaching...

dreamingbohemian · 11/05/2021 10:29

@PantTwizzler It does vary a lot across programmes.

I teach on an MA programme. We have taught modules September to March. April is a study month for exams in May. Then June to August they work on their dissertations.

So for us, opening up more next week is not very helpful. It's a bit like reopening schools in August.