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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Another year online?

785 replies

Ellewoods20 · 05/05/2021 17:42

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

OP posts:
titchy · 10/05/2021 22:17

Oh so they have followed the rules and quarantined.

I was simply making the point that come September hopefully we can all
look forward to good quality in person teaching. Safely. But that we should also be aware that there may still be some restrictions - such as quarantining, or social distancing, which will affect what can be done. And I'd hope that people would recognise that IF there are restrictions, we need to abide by them.

I think we all want the same thing you know. Safe in-person teaching.

mumsneedwine · 10/05/2021 22:50

@titchy agree. But if there are no restrictions then f2f should be back as normal. Not too much to ask ?

titchy · 10/05/2021 22:56

[quote mumsneedwine]@titchy agree. But if there are no restrictions then f2f should be back as normal. Not too much to ask ?[/quote]
Well if it's safe then yes of course.

Forgive us if we're cynical about Boris' pronouncements that there'll never be any more restrictions after 21 June thoughGrin

PantTwizzler · 10/05/2021 23:13

Some seriously depressing comments on this thread -- defensive, patronising, and arrogant in some cases.

And lots of admonitions to RTFT -- while not reading TFT.

Similar attitudes are on display among my DS's supervisors and those running the department/college/university. In his case, students can be taught outside -- in the specially set up marquees. But his supervisors haven't. Not even for a meet and greet. While many of their colleagues have.

DS has been charged for accommodation that he was legally unable to access.

MH problems are rampant in his cohort and one student has tragically taken her own life. Yet we as parents are painted as moaning minnies who don't understand how universities work. The point is, different universities/colleges have handled things differently within the law with very different outcomes for the students. Those of us with students who've been shortchanged, or worse, are naturally anxious about the autumn.

Ollinisca · 11/05/2021 02:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted

Duplobuplo · 11/05/2021 07:02

For those wondering why online is more work, it just involves a ton more prep and support. I used to update my slides for 30 mins each year and then walk in and deliver. Online lectures require you to split each lecture into 'manageable chunks' so often completely redesigning not just the content but the flow. The slides need adapting as students want content heavy bullet points face to face so they can revise from them but on video it's not necessary and often they'll be using phones to view them so don't need all the tiny writing. After you've sorted that you need to start recording, in your house, with your dog, toddlers, shopping delivery, crap broadband, no light as youve stayed up all night trying to sort it. Once you've recorded it (which takes hours to get it right) you have to edit it and change all the captions so international students can follow it ok and none of the captions have accidentally said something completely wrong. Then you have to upload it to a VLE which has also needed to be completely overhauled because now it's an online course not just a repository for lecture materials. I'd say an hour lecture content probably takes about 5 hours all in. Hopefully it'll be slightly smoother this year but not by much.

Kazzyhoward · 11/05/2021 07:16

@Duplobuplo

For those wondering why online is more work, it just involves a ton more prep and support. I used to update my slides for 30 mins each year and then walk in and deliver. Online lectures require you to split each lecture into 'manageable chunks' so often completely redesigning not just the content but the flow. The slides need adapting as students want content heavy bullet points face to face so they can revise from them but on video it's not necessary and often they'll be using phones to view them so don't need all the tiny writing. After you've sorted that you need to start recording, in your house, with your dog, toddlers, shopping delivery, crap broadband, no light as youve stayed up all night trying to sort it. Once you've recorded it (which takes hours to get it right) you have to edit it and change all the captions so international students can follow it ok and none of the captions have accidentally said something completely wrong. Then you have to upload it to a VLE which has also needed to be completely overhauled because now it's an online course not just a repository for lecture materials. I'd say an hour lecture content probably takes about 5 hours all in. Hopefully it'll be slightly smoother this year but not by much.
Or, as some lecturers have got away with, just put on the recording of last year's lecture theatre version. That's the problem. Not all lecturers are doing what you're doing. That's why people are complaining.
randomsabreuse · 11/05/2021 07:25

My degree was a while ago but I do not see the point of being in person for the large lectures given there was zero interaction or opportunity for interaction. Compared with DH's more recent post grad certificates I'd prefer recorded lectures (content heavy with lots of citations to look up) to in person lectures regardless of the pandemic.

Seminars are a different kettle of fish - much better in person.

I didn't really count lectures as contact time because it really was not. Might be different in other (smaller) subjects, but plenty of Arts subjects had very little meaningful contact time 20 years ago, other than at Oxford and Cambridge where you had weekly tutorials!

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 07:52

Or, as some lecturers have got away with, just put on the recording of last year's lecture theatre version. That's the problem. Not all lecturers are doing what you're doing. That's why people are complaining.

Yes. We know.
However, that wasn't the question. Someone asked why does it take longer to prepare online sessions and people have responded to that.

You do realise it's okay to let people discuss the good practice that is taking place?
We know not every academic is doing a good job but some are and it's okay for them to talk about how they are approaching their work.

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:07

@PantTwizzler

Some seriously depressing comments on this thread -- defensive, patronising, and arrogant in some cases.

And lots of admonitions to RTFT -- while not reading TFT.

Similar attitudes are on display among my DS's supervisors and those running the department/college/university. In his case, students can be taught outside -- in the specially set up marquees. But his supervisors haven't. Not even for a meet and greet. While many of their colleagues have.

DS has been charged for accommodation that he was legally unable to access.

MH problems are rampant in his cohort and one student has tragically taken her own life. Yet we as parents are painted as moaning minnies who don't understand how universities work. The point is, different universities/colleges have handled things differently within the law with very different outcomes for the students. Those of us with students who've been shortchanged, or worse, are naturally anxious about the autumn.

This ^^
Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:09

@Duplobuplo

For those wondering why online is more work, it just involves a ton more prep and support. I used to update my slides for 30 mins each year and then walk in and deliver. Online lectures require you to split each lecture into 'manageable chunks' so often completely redesigning not just the content but the flow. The slides need adapting as students want content heavy bullet points face to face so they can revise from them but on video it's not necessary and often they'll be using phones to view them so don't need all the tiny writing. After you've sorted that you need to start recording, in your house, with your dog, toddlers, shopping delivery, crap broadband, no light as youve stayed up all night trying to sort it. Once you've recorded it (which takes hours to get it right) you have to edit it and change all the captions so international students can follow it ok and none of the captions have accidentally said something completely wrong. Then you have to upload it to a VLE which has also needed to be completely overhauled because now it's an online course not just a repository for lecture materials. I'd say an hour lecture content probably takes about 5 hours all in. Hopefully it'll be slightly smoother this year but not by much.
Surely then uni staff should be fighting to get back to normal?
Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:12

@dreamingbohemian

Students are not a captive audience next year though -- they can decide not to return. And then universities will definitely lose money. So the odds of a university planning to offer only online are pretty slim, they know they will lose students and thus money.

I don't understand why people are insisting universities reopen in June when there is no teaching in June.

That’s so patronising - no one has said unis teach in June ffs. It’s saying social distancing is changing from June therefore unis have no excuse to stick with social distancing from aug/sept.

Sounds like you are running out of arguments to stay working from home etc

IrmaFayLear · 11/05/2021 08:18

One hopes that the academics who have a lot of time to post on MN saying how the rules dictate that they can’t possibly return to normal are not representative of academics in general.

When people were arguing about schools returning, the most vocal and prolific posters were clearly ones not busily engaged in online teaching!

MangosteenSoda · 11/05/2021 08:22

Lots of lecturers don’t/didn’t have the skills to make slick videos. They had never done it before and didn’t know the basics. Often the much beloved, characterful, older members of staff who engage and charm students in person have had a horrible year, but through circumstance, not through lack of care. IT and E-Learning have been amazing, but it doesn’t happen overnight. The support we get, licences available and training have all increased massively. The policies are also continually improving, particularly in regard to accessibility.

I don’t think any uni is thinking of staying fully or even mostly online. I do think most unis will continue to have increased online support though, such as additional materials, some blended modules and some asynchronous support content. Done well, this should be positive.

I absolutely stand by previous comments re good, organised teaching in an online setting being better than compromised in person teaching (reduced contact or reduced opportunities for collaboration).

My uni didn’t have marquees, or not many. You couldn’t have taken a full class and taught them as normal because apart from distancing, most lectures/seminars etc need significant AV support. There could never be enough marquee space to cover enough classes to make it meaningful (even in collegiate unis). Students still wouldn’t have been able to collaborate closely so an interactive class would have turned into a lecture. I can’t think how I could have made that work for my classes, not through laziness, just through practicality and the need to maintain teaching standards and cover the necessary material.

1:1s, yes if space is available. So that would be more likely to be a meeting between a supervisor and a student writing a dissertation. Also small group project support or an academic advice drop-in, again, if logistically possible.

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:23

I am concerned about the comments here about international students - there have been a few about ‘Indian’ students that seem deeply worrying. Many have been stuck here. For new students coming in aug then they will need to quarantine and test - if the racists dont ban them of course. I’m sure the unis will be keen to get their money ahead of they first though. Why not put some of that uni money towards supporting internationals with vaccines? Why not campaign for that rather than bicker over your right to work at home.

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:23

@IrmaFayLear

One hopes that the academics who have a lot of time to post on MN saying how the rules dictate that they can’t possibly return to normal are not representative of academics in general.

When people were arguing about schools returning, the most vocal and prolific posters were clearly ones not busily engaged in online teaching!

Did you mean to be so rude?

Teaching has pretty much finished for the year.
My teaching timetable is half what it was before Easter.

I'm now marking, researching, running external projects and planning for next year (without clear guidance). While still a very heavy workload I have flexibility to post on MN. Is that okay with you?

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:23

@IrmaFayLear

One hopes that the academics who have a lot of time to post on MN saying how the rules dictate that they can’t possibly return to normal are not representative of academics in general.

When people were arguing about schools returning, the most vocal and prolific posters were clearly ones not busily engaged in online teaching!

Quite! How do they fit it all in?!
IrmaFayLear · 11/05/2021 08:24

Methinks some people protest too much...

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:25

Seriously, who the fuck is bickering over our right work at home. Not one person on this thread has said that.

You're just being deliberately nasty now.

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:28

That is absolutely what it boils down to.

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:28

Quite! How do they fit it all in

Methinks some people protest too much...

You too sound lovely.......

FHOJfinf18 · 11/05/2021 08:29

Ok I think a lot of people here are just trolling. No academic here said they dont want to return back to normal - we just tried to explain our employer's postion and some of our pedagogical decisions.

Why on earth do you not think we want to go back to normal or why dont you think that lecturers have also had lost of MH issues. Personally if things dont go back to usual, I will have to quit because I also cant take isolation.Am an extravert who gets energy from teaching my students, interacting with my colleagues, going to events etc. I have found it incredibly hard to effectively spend a year and half sitting at my desk completely on my own. but being churpu and motivating ro my students. In practice, we've had so so much more work this year with little positive feedback and absolutely no real contact with others. I accept that because thid has been a pandemic and I havent died, my family hasnt died. But why on earth would I want for this to carry on
I've already WFH part of the time but this year has been incredibly hard, isolating often with little thanks for both my employer/students.

Most academics on this thread havent said anything about whether they've had a great time this year but why things are as they are.

DelBocaVista · 11/05/2021 08:32

@Newgirls

That is absolutely what it boils down to.
According to whom? You?

Because that's not what anyone is saying.
But don't let that ruin your vendetta against academics.

Lots of us have tried to help, offer explanations and reasoning behind what is happening yet you just resort to lies and nasty comments.

Please remember that you are still talking to people. You might be anonymous but the nastiness is uncalled for.

Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:34

@FHOJfinf18

Ok I think a lot of people here are just trolling. No academic here said they dont want to return back to normal - we just tried to explain our employer's postion and some of our pedagogical decisions.

Why on earth do you not think we want to go back to normal or why dont you think that lecturers have also had lost of MH issues. Personally if things dont go back to usual, I will have to quit because I also cant take isolation.Am an extravert who gets energy from teaching my students, interacting with my colleagues, going to events etc. I have found it incredibly hard to effectively spend a year and half sitting at my desk completely on my own. but being churpu and motivating ro my students. In practice, we've had so so much more work this year with little positive feedback and absolutely no real contact with others. I accept that because thid has been a pandemic and I havent died, my family hasnt died. But why on earth would I want for this to carry on
I've already WFH part of the time but this year has been incredibly hard, isolating often with little thanks for both my employer/students.

Most academics on this thread havent said anything about whether they've had a great time this year but why things are as they are.

High profile academics eg jo Grady and Stephen Reicher have made it clear they do not want to return to f2f. Many academics on here have said their unis were making plans to move towards blended models before covid. Please rtt!
Newgirls · 11/05/2021 08:36

Nastiness? I have read racism on here from so called academics. I have seen very little about true support for students who have lost out so much. It mostly seems to be justifying a preference for this new working pattern rather than an acceptance that by aug/sept there will be little justification for staying blended.