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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Students full return to campus

507 replies

DoNotBringLulu · 13/04/2021 17:43

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 14/04/2021 22:07

Sorry AZ or J&J.

ListeningQuietly · 14/04/2021 22:27

titchy
Southampton Uni did it.
It saved lives.
The J&J is a single jab
it should be done.
Uni staff should demand it
Students should demand it
(at southampton the "sticking " was all done by community health nurses)

Xenia · 14/04/2021 22:34

(On the tiny point of hotels etc it has been lawful most of the last year to rent a hotel room for work trips, attending funerals and various other reasons)

titchy · 14/04/2021 22:38

@ListeningQuietly

titchy Southampton Uni did it. It saved lives. The J&J is a single jab it should be done. Uni staff should demand it Students should demand it (at southampton the "sticking " was all done by community health nurses)
You really think uni students should be prioritised over the elderly, healthcare workers, clinically vulnerable, teachers, police officers, public transport workers? So they can drink in the union bar? Wow...

I'm sure it's logistically quite easy, but that isn't really the issue is it?

titchy · 14/04/2021 22:39

And J and J hasn't yet been approved. And we have limited supply of the others.

Needmoresleep · 14/04/2021 22:41

Listening, unfortunately the US has just suspended use of J&J because of a one in a million clot risk. It is the same technology as AZ. The Washington Post today recognises that the suspension is a worry because it is perfect for hard to reach communities as it is single dose and can be kept in a fridge.

There are going to be a lot of public heath PhD theses written in the future about the value of an individual life as opposed to the needs of society. The risks/rewards of the J&J and AZ vaccines are different for younger people compared with older people. Hence the decision not to give AZ to under 30s. My guess is that J&J will be the same.

Needmoresleep · 14/04/2021 22:51

(Xenia, you are correct. However work related accommodation tends to be in town/city centres. My target market is families with young children seeking somewhere near the beach that is cheaper and easier than a b&b. Then students through the winter months. But it is what it is. Restrictions are being lifted stage by stage. I guess they want to assess the lifting of each restriction before moving on. Luckily it seems that opening schools has not been too negative.)

MinesAPintOfTea · 14/04/2021 22:57

@titchy

As an aside, don't assume all students want 100% in person. The majority of students aren't 18 year olds straight from school and many have appreciated the flexibility of online.
This quite a bit over 18 year old, mother and PhD student has really struggled with online learning. I limited my choice of universities to only those I could reach from the town DS was already in school at to avoid remote working, because I know I need to see people to work with them, then this happened. I haven’t seen my supervisors or peers in 13 months.

Taught course online this week has been grim. Hardly anyone has spoken. I just want to see people again.

MinesAPintOfTea · 14/04/2021 23:09

On the above, I don’t blame university staff at all for this situation. But don’t pretend that just because people are over 18 and have responsibilities they don’t want to be on campus. I would give quite a lot to be allowed to work on my campus office where no one runs in going Mamamama. At least most 18 year olds don’t have to deal with that!

Needmoresleep · 14/04/2021 23:20

MinesaPint. My impression is that after a year, aot of wfh-ers are desperate to break out of their bedrooms. In London, particularly younger staff seem to be asking if they can return to the office.

Its clear. Humans are sociable animals.

ShaunaTheSheep · 15/04/2021 06:22

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/582345

Let's get the petition over 10000 - only 90 signatures needed.

SarahMused · 15/04/2021 07:25

Part of the issue is that university students seem to be affected more than other groups, often illogically so. Our small city has a 16-19 sixth form of 4000 students who are all back in class whereas the university which has around 6000 still can’t return to f2f teaching even though a lot of the students are actually here living in their accommodation. Older, vulnerable staff and students have been vaccinated, the students are all mixing anyway. The additional risk of having f2f teaching is minimal in this situation when so much other stuff is now open.

Xenia · 15/04/2021 07:29

I agree. A lot of students who are not first years barred from returning by the institution were back last term and will go back for the summer term and even if not are mixing as allowed by law. Eg my son took a train to meet a friend for a pub birthday celebration - 6 met outside as is permitted. (Anyway with his lot just about all of them had mild covid in November)

CoffeeWithCheese · 15/04/2021 08:50

@MinesAPintOfTea

On the above, I don’t blame university staff at all for this situation. But don’t pretend that just because people are over 18 and have responsibilities they don’t want to be on campus. I would give quite a lot to be allowed to work on my campus office where no one runs in going Mamamama. At least most 18 year olds don’t have to deal with that!
Yep and again, for the students as well - not all of us are glam young 18-somethings (I bloody wish) and I'd still rather be back into my campus routine and I'd be getting better marks if I was to be fair.

We've had recorded lectures from a staff member hiding in the bathroom with the laptop balanced on the washing basket to avoid kids at one point, and umpteen seminars interspersed with DOOOOOOR being bellowed at galumphing teenagers!

sandybayley · 15/04/2021 09:03

There is an 'Urgent Question' this morning to the SoS from Daisy Cooper, a Lib Dem. Good for Gav to face it but expect more waffle...

Urgent Question: To ask the Secretary of State for Education, if he will make a statement on the return date given to university students and his Department’s plans to provide financial compensation to university students for lost teaching and rent during the coronavirus pandemic (Daisy Cooper)

Newgirls · 15/04/2021 09:18

Daisy is our fantastic MP! She has had a lot of emails on this matter. Yes fully expect waffle back but thanks to her for making them squirm a bit.

sandybayley · 15/04/2021 09:23

Michelle Donelan is answering 😬 - it's at 10.30am

Ontopofthesunset · 15/04/2021 10:13

Part of what frustrates me is the arbitrary nature of university and college decisions. My son's decision to choose an Oxford college that had accommodation for all three years has turned out to be a bad one, as had he been in a private house, he would have at least been able to return to a 'distanced' university life, with access to libraries and some limited social life. All his friends from home (mostly 2nd years) have been able to return to rented houses in various cities, and some university accommodation has been open (I know of people at Exeter and Leeds who are in halls). But he's stuck here and his college friends are stuck in their respective homes. And the mental health ramifications of academic pressure with no normal social contact are immense.

CupcakesK · 15/04/2021 10:18

I am whole heartedly in support of students returning to campus as soon as possible. As other posters have said - be angry at the government and ensure you and your DC vote in May to have their voices heard. University staff are under immense pressure, just as many other people have been over this pandemic. They face the prospect of redundancy due to increased costs and potential downturn in student numbers in subsequent years, balancing childcare and working, increased workload and totally unfulfilling jobs now that we can interact with students f2f.

  1. Refunds on uni accommodation: This would be ideal and many unis have made full or partial refunds. However, some unis are so financially stretched due to COVID (minimal government support, increased costs - they still have to maintain all of their expensive facilities even though no one is using them) that giving refunds may actually force some unis to cease operation. So I'm sure your DC would prefer to lose this money and actually finish their degrees.
  1. Full return to campus - there are many international students who are not allowed (either because of our travel rules or their own countries) to fly into the UK. Therefore there will have to be blended online and face to face learning until the pandemic is over worldwide. This means next academic year too. This is a huge amount of work for academic staff and is definitely NOT preferred! However, the government should allow students to return and have as much as possible running. It can't be compared to schools and FE returning because many international students will not be able to currently, so online learning in some form will still be happening for the foreseeable future.
  1. It is ridiculous that students can return to sports facilities and teams but nothing else. Also go on holiday, go to the pub etc. It feels that they have been forgotten about and many university staff are angry about this too
  1. Running extra sessions during the summer is not viable - just as we wouldn't expect teachers to teach during the summer holidays. University staff use this time to catch up on their research, which generates money for the university and in turn ensures it won't close down! Timetabling rooms for students in universities is an absolute nightmare too, so not as easy as just sticking on extra labs etc.
  1. Vaccinating students - I hope that there can be a massive drive to do this on campuses at some point, but that's not within the ability of universities to organise currently due to government policy of who is allowed a vaccine and which vaccine they should have.
  1. Financial compensation to students - complex area due to the way students pay back loans as many won't pay them off, so more like a graduate tax. Universities should absolutely not be responsible for refunding tuition fees, as above - many will simply have to shut down. It is well known in academia that there were several unis in considerable debt pre-COVID. The government has thrown money at so many other places, but not students. Possibly the best way is to reduce the interest charged on these loans or % paid back upon graduation

I know some of these things are hard to accept, the reality is that universities won't be back to normal until the pandemic is over world-wide and that means some online learning is going to be here for a while. Of course, there are better options to the current provision though, but ultimately the decision to allow all students back to campus lies with the government. No doubt some unis could have done better, it is a consumer market so those who are doing the bare minimum now will hopefully see a downturn in students applying in subsequent years. Students should make their voices heard to their student's union or the OFS for universities who they think are handling things particularly badly

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/04/2021 10:31

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d068cda1-70f8-42c2-9aca-2ce1ed142610 I guess this is where it will be?

mumsneedwine · 15/04/2021 10:32

@CupcakesK some v good points. Although I will be teaching during my summer holiday (unpaid) as we are running catch up sessions and summer schools for younger students. And I agree timetabling is a nightmare (we have the added joy now of bubbles). But that doesn't mean it's impossible. We are juggling stuff around so some missed labs can be done. It's a real pain but necessary we think.
I don't blame any of the staff who I'm very sure have tried their best and gone above and beyond. But Unis do need to repay these young peoples' patience with f2f from September. And say that now. Roadmap allows for it as government have said it's possible from May. And don't renege on this promise the day after accommodation is signed - again.
Boarding schools can cope with foreign students so I'm unclear why Unis can't too. Is any country banned from entering UK ?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/04/2021 10:37

She says 23% of students haven't returned, But a good tranche of them will not be able to return because they are overseas students, So the number of UK students who haven't returned is small.

And it's not about bloody hardship funding for us, it's abou mental health. One college in Cambridge has sadly lost two students to suicide since this academic year started.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/04/2021 10:40

Well that was a whole load of nothing, but everyone needs to keep pushing at the government.

Newgirls · 15/04/2021 10:41

@OhYouBadBadKitten

She says 23% of students haven't returned, But a good tranche of them will not be able to return because they are overseas students, So the number of UK students who haven't returned is small.

And it's not about bloody hardship funding for us, it's abou mental health. One college in Cambridge has sadly lost two students to suicide since this academic year started.

That’s horrific. I dread to think the loss around the UK of this age group
OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/04/2021 10:42

The return of students doesn't seem to have even been factored into the models. Where is the scientific analysis of the impact?