Students full return to campus

[DoNotBringLulu]

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

Blame the government - but even then, what is anyone supposed to do?

I do blame the Government.
Universities could have returned in the same way schools did. There's little difference between sixth formers and most university students.

When did FE colleges go back? I thought one of DD's friends went back at same as school went back but not sure.

FE went back at same time as schools.

@titchy

OU is shown on the graph linked to the data on the link. So I assume it has been included in at least some of the figures given.

It's included in the number of ALL students which is what that graph shows, not in the number of full
Time students - so the FT percentage isn't skewed by the OU.

So it doesn't. I didn't look at graph properly made just looked for a 2020 figure.

Read first paragraph and that says 37% of all undergraduate entrants.

Blame the government - but even then, what is anyone supposed to do?
vote
VOTE
VOTE
There are elections up and down the land on may 6th
PLEASE get all of the students to use their votes
either in person or proxy
if they stay silent they will be ignored

Yes, its local elections, but a HIGH turnout in "safe" areas
will scare the bejeesus out of the advisers

If kids do not get in the habit of voting
they will never have a say
VOTE
VOTE
VOTE

(and yes its "just" local - but it adds up to one heck of a message if millions of under 25s turn out)

@mumsneedwine

FE went back at same time as schools.

So why couldn't universities under the same plan? I know many did go back but the f2f was minimal and for a lot of courses none at all.

Sixth forms (and colleges presumably) were back f2f full time.

I know it would involve movement to new towns, but that happened anyway.

The government got their university planning wrong IMO and it really hasn't been fair in students at all.

@Abraxan 🤷‍♀️ not a clue why Unis couldn't go back. You can go on holiday anywhere in country now so the movement of people argument doesn't make sense.
But none of it makes sense to me, I just know our kids have been through a rubbish year and deserve better from now on.

But all of you getting angry it's a global PANDEMIC What do you think should have happened????

The same as school sixth forms and fe colleges perhaps?

Abraxan
Why is it safe to go on holiday, safe to go to a pub, safe to go to work
but NOT safe to go back to Uni ????

How about the Unis ramp up the J&J vaccine
Southampton Uni vaccinated a whole campus against meningitis in two days, it CAN be done
and get on with life ?

Agreed. They should have gone back at the same time as all other over 16s. Safety measures could have been put in place, plus which, surely my DC can't have been the only students to have already had covid, and many staff will have had at least one jab, so levels of immunity are far better now than they were in September.

@ListeningQuietly

Abraxan Why is it safe to go on holiday, safe to go to a pub, safe to go to work but NOT safe to go back to Uni ????

How about the Unis ramp up the J&J vaccine
Southampton Uni vaccinated a whole campus against meningitis in two days, it CAN be done
and get on with life ?

I agree. I only used the schools/colleges comparison as it was a similar scenario - groups of mostly younger people for the purpose of education.

Schools (and a lot of fe colleges) were FT f2f from September to December, and from March onwards. The sa,e should have been possible in universities IMO.

@MeltsAway

It disgusting the way students have been treated. 9.2k for online lectures, no study space, no library, no using the buildings, no student union facilities, no sports facilities or anything

We're in a global pandemic; the laws of the UK constrain us. It is not the universities' doing. Blame the government - but even then, what is anyone supposed to do?

There really is a lot of misplaced anger and resentment here. And when I've had undergrads swearing at me in online teaching, and acting in hugely disrespectful ways, I kind of wonder where that's coming from.

Well universities could look at refunding students part of their fees to start with. Also making allowances on exams/assessments. We can apply for a 3 week extension on assignments, but when I've had kids at home for 3 months, 3 weeks doesn't really help. Add to that the fact that for 2 of our modules we don't know if we are getting an essay or an exam for the final 30%.

Also we had 1 f2f session a week instead of 3 or 4. No lectures at all, just material provided online. The university buildings were echoingly empty. We could have moved room to room all day and not crossed any one else's path and had 4 seminars instead of 1. Then when we were in local lockdown and the majority of students were worried about coming in instead of doing 1 f2f and 3 online sessions to cover all the students they ran 4 f2f sessions with 1 or 2 students in each session. So the majority of the students watched a recording of 1 or 2 students in a seminar.

Students have suffered with tech, broadband, family interruptions, childcare issues. Same as anyone else working from home but we have paid the same price for this year as students in previous years. It's like paying for a 3 course meal and just getting a starter. Obviously the universities had to follow the law but it seems to me that they have done the absolute bare minimum to avoid cancelling their customers (and we are customers) and stay open for business while not providing anywhere near the service. In any other circumstances I would expect some kind of compensation. If I pay 3k say for a holiday in a hotel, and turn up and it's a caravan I would expect compensation.

All businesses have struggled and lost money during the pandemic. Except universities, some haven't even refunded accommodation. Its disgusting.

Here's a great idea - sign up for a loan of £9,500 to study an online course from the comfort of your own bedroom. No need to meet your tutors or fellow students or have any kind of social life. Why bother schlepping down to a library when you can read it on your tablet from home.

Sounds a bit shit to me. Sadly it is my DCs life at the moment.

PS I don't blame the university tutors - they have done the very best they can under the circumstances. I do blame the system that expects universities to be funded from fees in this way - when you pay £9.5k for a degree you are buying into not just the lectures and tutorials but also the availability of libraries, university facilties (also DC has paid an annual gym fee for a gym that has been shut) plus the whole academic scene.

If you wanted to do an online degree you could do a lot of it free on You Tube,

The Gov needs to recognise this and not make inidivdual students pay. We need universities e.g. what would we have done without all those university research departments that developed the vaccines. But making 18 year olds pay for them is a bit rubbish IMO

I wasn't angry last year, as the first lockdown seemed inevitable. I am angry now as I watch schools go back, FE colleges open, pubs and shops open.... I feel this time around that students are being blamed for the rise in cases last autumn and that is being used as an argument to prevent their return to campus. We are in a vastly different position to September/October as now half the population has received one vaccination and 7 million of the most vulnerable have received both vaccinations. In addition, loads of students had COVID in the autumn term so immunity in that community is probably pretty high. If they live in bubbles/households and obey all the other regulations, and if teaching is not face to face until May 17th, they could at least be allowed to live with other students.

DD will complete her intercalation degree without going into the University other than for open day and to collect her student ID. The course has been great but it would have been so much better if she could have met her lecturers and her fellow students, especially as all her modules have involved group projects.

However:

1. It is a global pandemic. Everyone has missed out.
2. Her fellow students are scattered all over the world. Many could not get back even if they wanted.
3. Social distancing has put huge pressure on lab space. (DDs course is medical related so exempt from restrictions.) Her tutor's lab normally fits four, but at the moment can only fit one.
4. The knock down effect of the lab space issue is that post graduates need proportionately more time. In a research heavy university they get priority.
5. There are gains as well as losses. Zoom working is the future, as are teams scattered in different countries. A computer scientist I was talking to yesterday thought DDs experience would prove hugely valuable should she choose to stay in a research role. His University experience in Eastern Europe had not included group working, but those were vital skills in the work place, so UK graduateshad a head start. It was also important to be able to work with others in different countries. (His team was in the US, London and Hungary so he laughed when hearing about DDs travails in arranging suitable times for group meetings, ordering and chasing parts from China, etc as well as valuing and maximising skills within the group. She is the only medic and her peers have been gentle with her on some of the more technical stuff whilst listening to her on medical points.)
6. There are variants out there. This is the second time, at least, that we have had surge testing for the South African variant in our borough. It would be awful to lose the progress we have made before we are geared up to understand things like the length of vaccine created immunity or have the capacity to deliver boosters.

And a correction. Holiday accommodation is not available till mid May unless it has a separate entrance.

Doesn't most holiday accommodation have a separate entrance ? I've never stayed in a cottage or caravan without one.

Needmoresleep - a lot of holiday accommodation is available right now from cottages, some apartments, caravans, pods, etc. Hotels and B&Bs are not but I know a number of people away on holidays this week during our Easter break.

But I still believe the better comparison is with school sixth forms, sixth form colleges and Fe colleges. All of which are open FT for f2f and have been since mid March, as well as in the Autumn term.

If Southampton University could vaccinate a WHOLE CAMPUS in 1997/98
www.jstor.org/stable/4617460?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
(they set up tables in the West Ref and "cattle crushed" every single undergrad, post grad, lecturer, staff member over two days)
WHY
Are Universities not vaccinating whole campuses now?
WHY?

Off topic but Abraxan, renting a holiday appartment without its own entrance is illegal until mid May. I rent out holiday flats and the guidance on the Government website is clear. Same rationale as hotels.

You can however visit second homes, and it may be OK to lend a second home to friends within a single bubble. But you can't do it commercially.

Mumsneedwine. Plenty of people stay in flats. It is normally cheaper. There are also blocks of self catering flats, often adjascent to hotels.

😊 not sure a discussion about the various types of available holiday accommodation is useful in respect of Unis. I know many many people away this week on holiday. Not one of them owns a 2nd home.
I'm back Monday and have 3 hours f2f with a class of 18 year olds. Doing a practical and then couple of hours discussion and revision. Can be done now so why is this not being done across the Education sector ? If nothing else why not confirm this will be done from September?

Are Universities not vaccinating whole campuses now?
WHY?
Errr because we're not the NHS? PHE along with the NHS is responsible for the vaccination programme, and rightly or wrongly they have decided that older people and CV people get priority over 18 year olds. Obviously.

@Needmoresleep

Off topic but Abraxan, renting a holiday appartment without its own entrance is illegal until mid May. I rent out holiday flats and the guidance on the Government website is clear. Same rationale as hotels.

You can however visit second homes, and it may be OK to lend a second home to friends within a single bubble. But you can't do it commercially.

I know they can't be. I know they have to have their own entrance. Some of the holiday apartments we looked at had their own entrance, mainly ground floor ones.

A further problem is that use of both the AZ is or will probably restricted in younger people. The alternatives are in short supply, with older peoplw prioritised.

@titchy 😊 this reminds me of when teachers were expected to test students for COVID. Er no, I will not be stuffing a swab up anyone's nose. I'm a teacher, not a nurse !
Hopefully youngsters will be vaccinated by July so 2nd dose by Sept.