Students full return to campus

[DoNotBringLulu]

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

@GCAcademic @TheMerrickBoy sorry, meant to say thank you to you both for having the compassion to come on here and put your views. Not easy when people are so angry (as a teacher I know this !!).
I am sorry it feels personal as it isn't. It's frustration at leaders doing things badly. And we can see our kids suffering - I've never known my chirpy kid ever be so unmotivated in her studies. She says she just can't get going on revision alone. She wants to ask questions snd chat about it all, not on line. She is so done with on line.

My sons have been 100% online this year (law post grad conversion year). I want to know if the course they do in September will be online only or not but even that seems very hard to find out. if it is I could have registered them for their institution in Leeds for £4k each a year cheaper than London if it will all be one line saving myself £8k. However we just don't know so it's London.

These are vast sums for parents. I have paid over £7000 rent for my son in Bristol this year even though his course is 100% online although he has been with friends and is 22 so not same as freshers but he has come home for final law exams.

@SarahMused

The UCU and it’s leader Dr Jo Grady have behaved appallingly throughout the past year. Back on Twitter over the last couple of days crowing about how they have managed to delay students’ return so that basically most won’t be back until September. No doubt they’ll be on strike soon afterwards. My DH is an academic, he’s left the UCU because of this but still receives their email communications, they couldn’t give a toss about the students. What they don’t seem to realise by resisting f2f teaching for their members is that they are literally doing themselves out of a job in the future. Once the universities only deliver lectures online and they have massive banks of materials, why pay a lecturer to deliver? Incidentally my DH is in university at the moment teaching f2f on a professional masters course. Two f2f blocks in and not a single lecturer or student has had Covid so far.

Exactly this. Gov (and we assume some chancellors/senior management) are making decisions that have an impact on staff as well as students.

@RosaDiazRocks

Thanks for your support Newgirls and mumsneedwine, I really appreciate it. I don't have twitter but I have emailed Lewis Goodall off the back of a tip on a different thread so thank you for that if that was you! I've also sent letters to all the major newspapers and the BBC so I'm hoping for some response.

Go you!! It’s not easy being a student against the system and this shit government. Stay strong 💪🏽

[quote mumsneedwine]@SarahMused very well said. Has occurred to me that once Unis have a full years worth of lectures on line they no longer needs that lecturer to lecture. Bang goes their job. I'd be fighting to go back if I was Uni staff.
Please thank your DH as so few are offering f2f it is really appreciated when some do. Like he's found out (& I have in school) it can be done safely now.
I really need to go mark year 13 assessments. My DD has just shown me a beautiful drawing of a testicle - one advantage of her being home 😂.[/quote]
Future medic?!

I've made a point of emailing our lecturers thanking them for the insane effort they put in to turn the course around to online... but it's still been a crap experience this year - with technology failures (again, Blackboard Collaborate I hate you), stuff being shoehorned into online delivery that needed face to face to be effective, the loss of the ability to share experiences and bounce ideas off each other that doesn't run freely when you're all doing the hands up function on whatever software you're using.

Worst bit has been watching some of the staff get so disillusioned and frustrated with it all as well. I'm easily one of the top few on my course academically - and I have lost ALL focus and motivation with just slogging it on alone day after day - and if I'm struggling, as someone who's really "benefitted" on paper from not going onto campus (saved a tonne on childcare and train fare)... god knows how crap it's been for those who were looking forward to university "life".

Right now I've given up the rest of this year as lost - I'm turning in something for the last couple of assignments I need and taking the hit on my degree mark - and I'm just waiting desperately for some word about what the hell they're going to do with next year because I'm not paying 9K more debt for another crappy year like this.

My son is a first year. He took a planned gap year, in which he couldn't do any of the travelling he had worked to pay for, so he's fairly stoic about changed plans. He has no complaints about teaching. He had face to face tutorials and online lectures before Christmas. Has been home since Christmas, but with a full rent rebate, and has carried on with the timetable, just all online. His exams will also be online. His tutors are available and helpful. What he has missed and is wistful about is the other stuff, especially sport teams. It can't be helped.

My two DC at uni have both enjoyed some aspects of this year. It has been bumpy at times, but I have no doubt at all that most of their tutors and lecturers have done their absolute best. For that reason, I don't think they need any fees back, but I do think the government should cut loan interest to zero for all those affected.

@Newgirls future vet 😂. Apparently testicles are quite similar - I'm learning stuff with her home. Her lecture on Llamas was fascinating.

@TheFallenMadonna sports teams are back at DDs Uni. She's soooooo looking forward to it. As she does the sports with people from her course they can revise while playing netball 😂.
On line couldn't be helped this last year, but it can be for next year and this is what the students are fighting for. Normality. We all need some.
I was terrified teaching autumn term when cases were huge, but the one thing I loved was being with the students. The discussions and weird tangents we go off at. Now we are back I can see how happy everyone is, kids and staff. And progression has been amazing as the kids want to be in school 😊.
Still a little scared (only 1 vaccine in) but it's the right thing to do.
Marking is boring today.

Universities are not going to get rid of lecturers just because lectures are online. That two hour weekly lecture is just a small part of what lecturers do.

That said, I agree that we should not be resisting going back into the classroom. And we should be doing everything we can to keep students from feeling abandoned. I spend hours every week talking to students on Teams and I really hope that's helping a bit.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Newgirls future vet 😂. Apparently testicles are quite similar - I'm learning stuff with her home. Her lecture on Llamas was fascinating. [/quote]
Brilliant! What a wonderful world to go into

I do just want to say thank you to all the lecturers and tutors on here who've been trying hard within the restrictions to make things as good as they can be, I don't blame you at all. As coffee says, it is so sad to watch the best lecturers get dispirited from having to teach online. Some of ours really care about our wellbeing as well and often tell us how much they miss teaching in person, which is genuinely appreciated. for you

@dreamingbohemian

Universities are not going to get rid of lecturers just because lectures are online. That two hour weekly lecture is just a small part of what lecturers do.

That said, I agree that we should not be resisting going back into the classroom. And we should be doing everything we can to keep students from feeling abandoned. I spend hours every week talking to students on Teams and I really hope that's helping a bit.

I think that is optimistic and perhaps naive. Why won’t unis buy blocks of lectures? Why won’t they bring in more guest lecturers? Research can shift (and already is) to private companies (health, tech, social etc).

What’s to stop famous brands like Rada, oxbridge, LSE etc selling an international package to students and take students from less prestigious unis?

If you are a name at a top uni then yes prob well protected. If in a lower ranked uni facing economic hardship then I think less hopeful.

@dreamingbohemian as lovely as I'm sure you are, and I'm sure it's really helped, they'd like to speak to other students too. Not sure how or if you can facilitate that somehow ? Preferably in person in groups of 6. Group projects maybe, where they get muddled up every week ? They could sit in a park together, might hate each other but would be meeting their course people. That would be brilliant I think,

If Unis came out, as a group, via VCs and said from September things will be back to as normal as we can, with f2f guaranteed for 50% minimum then students could have something to look forward to

No one can promise anything though. We might be in the middle of wave 3 and everything locked down again.

Most institutions I'm aware of are planning for in-person, on-line and blended next year so we can react to whatever gets thrown at us.

It's been a bugger this, it really has. The decision for in person teaching not to resume till 17 May came out yesterday. Yesterday! No mention of uni teaching till then. Completely forgotten by Gov. blamed by parents for their offsprings experience, blamed by the public for not refunding fees. Staff trying to deliver teaching at the same time as home schooling. IT colleagues working 20 hour days to make sure the tech works. Library staff disinfecting and posting resources. Unis paying for laptops and dongles for students who can't afford them. Paying to make campuses covid-secure. Organising lateral flow testing. 2% of our income we've spend as a direct result of Covid. And we weren't making a surplus!

And universities are teaching our future scientists who will develop future pandemic vaccines, future HCPs. Per student unit of income down by 20%, costs up due to increased NI and more to come in extra employer pension conts.

I know it's been crap for students. I have two - both doing STEM but on-line. We know and we sympathise and we're doing our best. But this isn't of our making.

We're the good guys here and we're struggling.

As an aside, don't assume all students want 100% in person. The majority of students aren't 18 year olds straight from school and many have appreciated the flexibility of online.

@Newgirls Just speaking from my experience at a university that has been doing online programmes for years before this, and teaching on one of them myself. We're all still gainfully employed despite having years of content stored up by now.

Lecturers are not just teachers, they are a source of revenue for the university (research grants + REF funding). We are expected to do lots of public-facing impact stuff that helps drive recruitment. We do lots of admin. Teaching is only 40% of the workload in my faculty.

If you got rid of the lecturers and just had students watch the equivalent of old youtube videos, there would not be a university left for very long.

But, I appreciate the situation may be very different at different kinds of universities.

This isn't personal towards any university staff. It's just frustration at how badly let down students have been this year..

I can understand why large lectures can't take place right now.

I can't understand why classes of 30 students can't happen.
It's allowed in schools, including at sixth form where the students are 17-19y, so not much different to many university students. If it was safe September - December and from March 2021 for sixth forms to be back, then it should be just as safe for students. Masks, hand sanitiser, twice weekly LfTs and ventilation. That all sixth forms and schools need (wasn't masks until this March )

Why is one allowed and the other not?

I think that is one of the frustrations many people have.

[quote mumsneedwine]@dreamingbohemian as lovely as I'm sure you are, and I'm sure it's really helped, they'd like to speak to other students too. Not sure how or if you can facilitate that somehow ? Preferably in person in groups of 6. Group projects maybe, where they get muddled up every week ? They could sit in a park together, might hate each other but would be meeting their course people. That would be brilliant I think, [/quote]
Oh absolutely, I don't think talking to me is enough! I do group chats as well. Not everyone joins in but those who do seem to really enjoy them.

I would have loved to do small-group meetups outside if it had been allowed. Our on-campus teaching has wrapped up for the year but we'll see for next year.

I do think @titchy makes a great point though, some of my students have absolutely preferred the online experience as they have small children or access issues.

My youngest is a 2nd yeaand has been online since last March. He’s made the best of it by continuing to live in London with three other students from his course so they have their own study bubble. I was really hoping he could get some f2f teaching before the end of the year but this is looking less and less likely as time goes by. His lecturers have absolutely done their best but nothing can compare to a full on university experience. He worked hard to get on to possibly the most competitive architecture course in the country and in theory could be back in as it is a practical subject but the university is very cautious and many students are international so they would have to keep the online element for them anyway. Even if they get a fee reduction all that means is that the might pay a bit less on their loans in 2 or 3 decades time. They need something now to compensate them for what they have lost.

@titchy we do appreciate it's as crappy for you as for the students. But those 18 year olds are a large majority of first years and they have had a v bad year, alone and expected to just get on as normal. No dispensation on grades required even though they are learning alone. If Unis would state their provisional plans for September it would help.
My eldest is one of those future HCPs and she is on wards every day now, with learning in person and on line. Uni have said they'll keep this model as works well and students agree as they can watch lectures around their placements (which vary a lot). But they all agree it would not have worked if they were first years as they all picked up so much from a coffee after lectures. And met each other (I will keep banging on about the importance of this).
I've just read the VC at Nottingham's letter to students and he sounds v angry. Said anyone can go back if 'don't have a place to study'. So everyone then. Libraries open until 2am so everyone can have a chance to use them. Planning to reopen fully in Autumn. Woo hoooo !!🤞🤞

I have just been working in my local village shop( community so we are all volunteers ) one of the people who came in was on holiday from somewhere with probably much higher cases than here staying at a small complex in village. He said it’s full with people from far and wide. Children all playing together outside chalets . Why is this allowed and not teaching at universities. People are already travelling up and down the country.

I cannot for the life of me envisage doing my degree without actual library access for a start , yes JSTor and all the digital databases are great but there is nothing like looking for a book and then finding another nearby quite by chance . ( and I only finished my masters 2 years ago) . Not everything is available in digital form .

Also writing off the dent is pointless because as soon as you have any debt you pay the same monthly amount . Also if the write the fees off then effectively they are saying people are not getting the same degree as they would have , all sorts of issues with that Pandora’s box.

The whole situation is a shambles

Also writing off the dent is pointless because as soon as you have any debt you pay the same monthly amount .

This is one reason the NUS hasn't particularly campaigned for a few refund. It would go back to the Treasury not into students pockets. The only one to benefit would be the future high earners who end up paying back their loans in full aged 50!

I've also had a bit of a problem with DD1 deciding my neuropathology lectures with loads of gory powerpoint slides were much more interesting and fun than her own school homework! Ruptured brain abscesses and necrotic toes and lovely stuff like that. Bugger off and do the 3 times table DD!