To think universities should state separate entry criteria for Indies?

[Wacamole]

DD who is on track for 3A*s at A’level, thought she’d give Oxbridge a go after being encouraged by her teachers. All very excited, doing super curriculars etc. Only just been told she doesn’t meet minimum entry criteria that would be expected from an Indy, which is straight 9s. She doesn’t have straight 9s, she has straight 8s (couple of nines), not only that, the course she wanted to apply for at Cambridge doesn’t require Maths at all, but school has advised they won’t even look at her if she doesn’t do Maths AND Further Maths. She is doing neither. Apparently an EPQ is also mandatory even though none of this is mentioned on Cambridge website.

All this second guessing, reading between the lines has been really confusing.
I have no issue with universities asking for higher entry criteria for students from indies for obvious reasons but wish they would be more transparent and state this on their ‘Entry requirements’ same way they state contextual offers?

I have a relative (13) who has long term aspirations to become a journalist.

It appears (though I may be wrong) a lot of journalists who work for the BBC, broadsheets, current affair magazines are predominantly Oxbridge with a few from post 92 unis.

For this type of career it suggests attendance at a select number of unis helps.

(Many newer unis though offer journalism as a degree but where their graduates end up I dont know)

Must be a really competitive industry if you want a salaried career.

You are sounding ridiculous with your fixation to prove it cannot be true and have now concluded it must be an unrecognised degree in order to suit your narrative. I guess all those unemployed graduates out there must have done unrecognised degrees? You are not showing yourself as remotely intelligent and quite frankly unpleasant. Please stop the accusations and don’t call me a liar again.

Crikey @mumsneedwine - all your ex-students seem to be doing spectacularly well. Move over, Eton, as the real route to success is from mums’s school!

I can’t say I know of one young person who has reached such exulted heights - and I’m sure their school has absolutely no idea what they’re up to now. Ds could be doing time for all they know.

Yes, what pays well varies over the years. I have been paid as a legal writing since about 1991 )(as well as my law career) and going through old records recently writing fees are extremely low even allowing for inflation now compared with then as so many people write for no pay. There are however outliers like J K Rowling and I presume people like Editor of the Financial Times and someone who writes the next 50 shades of best seller do well. That is too unlikely to make it a wise career choice in my view. Words in a sense have become cheap.

My latest book new edition was paid at less than the minimum wage - i was joking to the children that I need to get on some kind of Uber band wagon to get much higher pay as an exploited zero hours worker, but it is not for the likes of me as I am presumably the wrong class for a minimum wage claim.

Crikey @mumsneedwine - all your ex-students seem to be doing spectacularly well. Move over, Eton, as the real route to success is from mums’s school!

I was just thinking that, mumsneedwine seems to have extremely good knowledge of ex students. My dds sixth form was tiny and I doubt whether her form tutor remembers which uni or degree course she took and she taught her too. I didn't even know there were comprehensive schools with such large sixth forms of 200 to 300 per year group(obviously out of touch).

Do more selective/private schools support reapplications to Oxbridge (+others) to a greater extent than state?

I noticed that at my private school (many years ago) there were a couple of very bright twins who failed to get into Oxbridge and mysteriously took a year out (couple of others too).

Is thing for selective schools , having to bite of the cherry?

I think Sussex on the up again. Very good for history. A couple of years ago it was UEA being discussed a lot on MN now it's Sussex.

@IrmaFayLear 😂😂 I have taught in 9 schools. Each with an intake of over 300. If you add up the ex students I've dealt with it is a lot.

@Daisysway I run an alumni database for most of the schools I've worked in. It provides the best resource for work experience and mentoring (nicked this idea from private schools). So I know what about 7,000 of them are doing (not all mine - anyone who went to that school can apply to join groups). I run them through Facebook so it's very simple.
More join every year so I have a lovely bunch of adults I can call on for help.
Love the idea I've only ever worked at one school 😀

I have no idea whether DD’s school pushes reapplying to Oxbridge but I’m sure if approached, will support them.

Re: Sussex and Manchester, I was under the impression they were quite popular still. Sussex seems to have a very good reputation in particular with Computer science and Artificial Intelligence.

I think some private schools have a strong alumni network. They donate to the school as well as come and give careers talks. The school still celebrates their achievements long after they have left

Good on you @mumsneedwine . I think your schools are lucky to have someone so invested in student progress. Not all teachers are

@chopc 😊 thank you. There is a team of us and other schools do similar - it takes time but is so rewarding. It should be offered everywhere but it's hard if short staffed or dealing with other issues within a community. Our school was RI so got extra funding when I joined which has helped as we had more staff. As we are now doing well we have less money so less staff (but more students).
My medics and vets are firming offers at the moment and it's so exciting for them. I am so proud of them all. And one of my year 11s has got onto the equine course she wanted today 👊.

Well done @mumsneedwine, just goes to show a little tweaking of ‘how things are done’, can go a long way to improving educational outcomes.

@Xenia

Yes, what pays well varies over the years. I have been paid as a legal writing since about 1991 )(as well as my law career) and going through old records recently writing fees are extremely low even allowing for inflation now compared with then as so many people write for no pay. There are however outliers like J K Rowling and I presume people like Editor of the Financial Times and someone who writes the next 50 shades of best seller do well. That is too unlikely to make it a wise career choice in my view. Words in a sense have become cheap.

My latest book new edition was paid at less than the minimum wage - i was joking to the children that I need to get on some kind of Uber band wagon to get much higher pay as an exploited zero hours worker, but it is not for the likes of me as I am presumably the wrong class for a minimum wage claim.

My DH has a specialist academic book in print with Blackwells and every year flourishes a massive cheque for about £125 in royalties. It's been in print about 20 years but that still doesn't really add up to much does it?

@Wacamole thanks. Years ago I blatantly looked at what private schools were doing and started to copy them. This was before I was a teacher but worked in schools in a support capacity (they dragged me into qualifying as a teacher). Had loads of help from staff at local schools & over the years have tweaked the model to fit the cohorts I work with. I find aspiration breeds aspiration- so once a few start to succeed others can see it's possible so have a go too. Hence the Oxbridge success this year I think.
Marking afternoon ahead. Yeah 😾

@mumsneedwine I try to do something similar at my state primary - my DC were lucky enough to win scholarships to an academic prep, so anything they did that I thought valuable, I promply nicked for my class. It also gave me the impetus to pester local independent secondaries for outreach stuff for my G+Ts. This started back in the days when they were scared of losing their charitable status, but they haven't dumped us now the threat's retreated.

aspiration breeds aspiration should be a hashtag. Reminds me of a young youtube influencer called Ibrahim Mohammed, he went to Cambridge from a poor background and a low attaining school in Hackney. He started posting videos on how to get into Cambridge, tips on study, writing UCAS applications etc, purposefully to inspire kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. He’s now quite the YouTube sensation and has attracted many kids to apply to Oxbridge who wouldn’t normally have considered it, because if Ibrahim can do it, so can they. Cambridge gave him an award for widening access.

(Although on the basis of my post above with typos no wonder I might be paid very little for writing......)

@KingscoteStaff that's what I grabbed in to ! Private schools were scared of losing their charity status so I offered up my students as charity cases 😂. Win win all round.
This young man is my inspiration.

www.cctl.cam.ac.uk/oscea/ibrahim-mohammed

mumsneedwine what your school does is the recognised package for widening participation. None of this is new, the difference between schools is whether they embrace it as yours does and how much energy and commitment the SLT puts into the programme where they do embrace it. Unfortunately none of our local comps seem to be bothered and so I assume that there's a patchwork of success all around the country, depending on the leadership of the school.

A belated wave to fellow Hullite @kitnkaboodle 😀. I have such happy memories of volunteering for HUSSO and writing for Hullabaloo. I became a software engineer at IBM after a conversion MSc (on a European Women Into Engineering studentship) and became a freelance tech author a decade ago. I am immensely grateful for my Hull university experience - despite the teasing by DH and DC!

@goodbyestranger

mumsneedwine what your school does is the recognised package for widening participation. None of this is new, the difference between schools is whether they embrace it as yours does and how much energy and commitment the SLT puts into the programme where they do embrace it. Unfortunately none of our local comps seem to be bothered and so I assume that there's a patchwork of success all around the country, depending on the leadership of the school.

Ours neither. If I was to be charitable I would say it's because it's such a struggle to pull students up to average grades let alone polishing those who get top grades. And it's also a response to the shockingly low aspirations of parents But I'm not feeling charitable!

At the dcs’ school they were obsessed with hauling kids over the level 4 grade. I don’t think they gave a wotsit if kids got a 9.

I had a “discussion” with the English teacher who was singing the praises of mixed ability as “the more able pull up the others”. Meanwhile ds was miserable as his seat mate was chanting “boring boring boring” through all the lessons.

I have heard similar stories from friends with DC in comps Irma. Mumsneedwine's schools sounds like one of the success stories but they are definitely not all like that. My DD has a very clever friend who goes to a struggling local comp. The aim there seems to be to get as many as possible above a Level 4. The girl has gone from being a very motivated high achiever to telling her parents that a GCSE 6 or 7 is plenty good enough when she should be getting 8/9. I agree that the grammar school system is not perfect but I am thankful that my DC are in schools where they can reach their full potential and compete for top University places with DC who have had the advantage of selective Independent education. Much as it is admirable to help the boy/girl next to you get to a Level 5, surely every child has the right to reach their own full potential.