Oxford Cambridge 2021 Thread 6

[Chocomel]

Hopefully this is in the right place?

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be insensitive. It’s in many ways a brutal process and, as others have said, probably the first time that many very, very high achieving pupils have “failed” and with that comes a whole host of very complicated emotions. If you look at the student room your heart could break for some of the disappointed applicants.

Agree, Intothefray - dd had to analyse a foul poem and the interviewers just stared at her, whilst the WiFi simultaneously went on the blink.

She was a bit put out to discover that at other colleges there was no unseen poem, or there was a play/prose. So it is a bit luck of the draw. Also you might have the bad luck to follow a particularly brilliant candidate

Hi @Chilldonaldchill!

Durham will have its reasons but it is impossible for us to deduce. A close friend of my daughter took a First from Cambridge in the summer. 3 years ago, she was offered by Cambridge, Durham, Exeter and UCL. St Andrew's rejected her quite early on. We were all staggered. Maybe they thought she would reject them anyway, especially as a very strong and 'southern' applicant.

For universities, there is extra guess work when they think a candidate may have applied to Oxbridge.

Irma, was that for English? At the open day, the English dept talked about ‘the poetry interview’, so I think it is probably the exception for a college not to have an unseen poem.

One of DD4's Classics interviews was on a wacky unseen unexpected English poem c.1700.

Literally anything can be chucked at you.

DS1 had a Medicine interview where they asked a History question.

Etc.

Thankyou everyone for clearing up the myths surrounding other unis - I’m only going on what I’ve heard elsewhere from other parents/students & I guess I should take it all with a pinch of salt!
Still waiting for offers here though.
I agree with you on lots of those points @mikeandike our dds sound very similar, we also had a mock before with an ex Cambridge tutor who said similar about dd. Again, now wondering if she was given some false confidence but hey-ho, it is what it is now.
Still heavy with disappointment here I’m afraid.
My dd actually excels in her 6th form, small classes & also some 1-1 tutorials there too and even though she has diagnosed panic disorder & anxiety (& receives counselling ongoing for this) it never stops her from participating or indeed learning & she is a very popular member of the college with teachers & pupils alike & loves socialising too, just in case I made her come across as a bit weird due to panicking!
I totally understand that interviews are meant to challenge them (hence all the prep we did, we were not ill informed) but it wasn’t a case of ‘nerves’ @bendmeoverbackwards it was a full on panic attack with an out of body feeling, voices sounding disjointed, everything going dark & with poor dd just trying to talk her way out of it- she knew she had done badly the minute she got out of there & told her teachers (& called me) & we all said maybe we should let O know but she didn’t want us to. I’m kind of regretting that now. I’m guessing it didn’t go down well at all as she wasn’t even called for an extra interview to try to make up for it. But yes, I must agree that if they were not aware she probably looked like a bit of a druggie or something to those not in the know and it would’ve gone against her. But IF they were aware then to ignore it or not stop the interview is bordering on a lack of empathy and I agree that it would make us question if she would flourish in such a place. It’s very unfortunate that she had one then tbh, she can have them intermittently, the last one was over 6months ago since it’s not an everyday thing, it’s just that when they come it’s out of the blue with no warning. To put it in context; dd was looking forward to chatting with academics in her subject about her love of literature. She had been great all the way through the process, the ELAT which can also be nerve wracking went without a hitch and so did her 2nd interview.
The very sad thing for us I think, is like I said, we thought she would really flourish in a place like oxford, she seems an ideal fit; someone with a massive interest in her subject, working at an extremely high level at it, enjoying it & wanting to learn more & loves nothing more than talking about it. Unfortunately for her they didn’t feel the same way 😩
Her worries of other unis is not getting enough info & getting lost in a crowd I suppose. She wanted the chance to explore old manuscripts with experts and quizz them on their knowledge, she wanted to write 2 or 3 essays a week and push herself further. She has always been bored by not knowing enough & I just feel so bad for her to know that o/c is probably the most intense place & she was so up for it and that’s why nothing else thrills her.

We have to accept it of course. I hope it makes her stronger but it may not. It may actually do the opposite & she loses all interest in studying & what could’ve been & she will be just another student at uni going out and getting drunk because she’s totally unfulfilled. That’s my worst fear for her if I’m honest.

In response to the PP who asked why Oxford did not publish how many offers it would make beforehand is because the exams were only cancelled last week. Therefore they did not know until then that their "thinning" out down to the number required by failure to meet the grades would not be happening once again. Thus, they do not want to be overstretched again so have made offers closer to the usual numbers knowing that indeed with teacher assessed grades there is less likelihood of offers being missed. Cambridge has announced this because they have the luxury of the extra 2 weeks.

Please do remember that most applicants are all perfect on paper including my rejected DS with his 3 x A*, decent supra-curricular and so on. At his super selective school there are always some surprises either no interview, no offer and sometimes an offer for someone the school may consider not as good a candidate as an offer holder in the same situation.

The important thing now is to either take a break and make a decision or throw enthusiasm into the choice they do make. Good luck to anyone who does do it all again. Part of me wished DS did (especially as his friend who did now has an offer) but he didn't want to and I respect his decision.

Wishing you all well. I know from experience the "pain" goes away.

@goodbyestranger and others, my dd had an unseen poem in 2nd interview, a really old unknown one but she relished it(poetry is a strong point) and said everything she noticed about it & the tutors seemed pleased & encouraging ie. nodding and saying, yes, well done etc as she went through it. She actually really enjoyed this interview and wanted to do another one after! That’s why I feel it was so unfair on her after the first one went badly. She fully expected to be given another interview at another college or two but it wasn’t meant to be. That is why this process is so brutal. If you are not on your top game for the interviews it seems that no matter what the other parts of application say then it really IS all down to interviews and probably, sadly, if they liked you. Which as we all know in life, you won’t click with everyone. And some are slow burners. To judge that harshly in 20 mins seems cruel. Especially if it takes some dc a bit to warm up. What if after 35 mins they would’ve got more out of it & really started to fliw

• fly

The problem is you really can't tell how you have done. Sometimes the nodding and sayiong yes ones aren't the ones they have done well in and sometimes the silent, pursed lipped ones are. When she gets her feedback (which I assume you have rquested) you will see the scores she got. Is she at an independent school or state school because in many subjects they will get contextualised. Also was her ELAT an actual 59/60 or 59%. HAT is marked out of 40 but was given as a percentage in the feedback. Has she seen a copy of her school reference? If not, she can get a copy of this by asking UCAS for a copy. However, sometimes this level of dissection does not help. It may be better to wait a short while before deciding to (over) analyse.

Dontdointernetbut, honestly I think the relative ordinariness of many oxbridge kids might have come as a shock to your clearly very bright and intense dd.

Sympathies on the panic disorder though. The experience you describe, ‘a full on panic attack with an out of body feeling, voices sounding disjointed, everything going dark’ is pretty much what hit me just before Finals. Not pleasant.

@dontdointernetbut for what it's worth I think you should perhaps write to the admissions team or better still ask if school can write and ask if they were aware of her panic disorder?

It may not make a difference of course but at least you would have done all in your power. It is frustrating when DC hasn't been able to perform at their best and lose out. This happens in all kinds of settings not just these interviews

There are other universities such as Durham and UCL which are quite academic and where your daughter can thrive so it is also good not to dismiss them

They score all interviews though don'tdointernetbut, so scoring well in one out of two may well not be enough.

Very, very, very hard to see a DC so upset though - I feel for you, and her.

I think your job now is to help her dial down the drama over the next few days. She’ll find her peers somewhere else - no need to assume that she’ll plunge into a sort of Rake’s Progress to Gin Street.

The obvious response to a mother writing about a panic disorder is to say that the Oxford environment may well exacerbate the problem rather than help it.

There are other universities such as Durham and UCL which are quite academic

Only 'quite' chopc?!!!!

Some good news here, DS got an offer through from Durham tonight, for natural sciences. He is chuffed and it totally takes the pressure off for Cambridge now. Phew.

No idea tbh @goodbyestranger . They are highly ranked so I would say yes hence "quite" as I don't know if they truly are. University for me was more about fun than academics - I worked hard and played hard

@SeasonFinale she is at an independent school but has good grades (12 GCSEs 10 at A others A, 3 A levels AAA and doing 2 more now predicted AA) and yes the ELAT mark was 59 out of 60 not percent. She couldn’t have done much more to be honest!

Yes @FlyingSquid we are working on that! So sorry to hear that you have experienced an attack like that too. It’s very scary but my dd is learning to deal & live with them. Unfortunately she felt that she couldn’t explain mid interview so it got worse & out of control- she was wiped out for the rest of the day after it. :(

I don’t think it would be worse for her her once in oxford actually & I don’t even think it was about the interview but just unfortunate that it happened on that particular day. It doesn’t tend to affect her studies now at all and her college work is pretty intense! She is already working at a top level

Thankyou @chopc I think I might well try to call or email O even just for some closure. I suppose it can’t do any harm though I’m wary of being THAT parent 🙄 and understand that we will have to accept their decision with a certain amount of grace.
Easier said than done I must say! I’m feeling things I didn’t know I would after all of this, it’s quite an unknown thing as I thought we were quite well prepared for every outcome. Strange to find out we are not at all.
We intend to get feedback but I’m pretty sure it would be that first bad interview experience that did it.

Great news, RunnersTipple. It's such a relief to know they won't be kept dangling, isn't it?

dontdo - I’m so sorry to hear your DD is taking it so hard. Maybe you could remind her that this is just one entry point to Oxford. She has the chance to go elsewhere - maybe a uni that offers a year abroad even - and then apply again.

DS has a place at UCL and I’ve been trying to big that up but actually, I don’t need to that much because there’s so much going on there. There was an online open day today and they can spend the third year at somewhere like Berkeley - or Japan. There’s so much out there and your DD has the world at her feet! Would she enjoy a year abroad, do you think? I believe Durham give that option for many courses.

It’s so tough on them but, ultimately, you can never know why they’ve been redirected. As pp say, the majority are and they will all have top grades, excellent references and the whole shebang.

I’m not sure how much the interviews can count really. For instance, for DS’ subject, some colleges do one interview and some two. So some applicants are assessed by four tutors, others just two. DS had to send in two essays to his college, but most colleges don’t ask for written work. So how can they standardise all this? I’m not sure, especially when they have no admissions test. It’s far from a perfect science and of course there will be a large element if human bias involved, as well as luck. But at least she tried. It didn’t work out for her this time, but maybe this just means her real lucky break is waiting somewhere else down the line - like an amazing job offer or something when she graduates with her first!

For those who've had bad news this week, just wanted to say that really Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all. I have one DC at Oxford and an older DC who recently graduated from a Russell Group Uni, both doing the same subject. Of course, there are fabulous things about Oxbridge but there are many advantages to other Universities too, even for the brightest child. The courses can be much more dynamic and exciting elsewhere, life is more relaxed but I think my RG Uni child got a much broader, and in many ways more interesting, education. It's obviously sad when the news isn't what you'd hoped for, but beyond Oxbridge there really are some fantastic Universities offering amazing courses.

It really is @DahliaMacNamara I hadn't even realised how much until he told me. For him and me both.